SS Pacific and MV Pacific

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Stevin, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. Stevin

    Stevin Member

    Hi gents,

    I did a search through Geoff's search engine, as I wanted to see if my list of casualties of SS Pacific, which sunk on 9 Feb. 1943 was complete.

    I have 30 men (3 navy and 27 Merchant seamen) for SS Pacific but also 3 for MV Pacific who were killed on this same date.

    However, if I search for MV Pacific in Geoff's search engine I get 78 hits with many different dates. However; 75 are from different MV Pacific (-President, -Grove, etc), which were sunk on different days.

    So the Q; what is the difference between SS (Steam Ship) Pacific and MV Pacific and why would there be only 3 casualties listed on the same date as SS Pacific was sunk? Is this one and the same ship? If so, why are most listed under SS Pacific and three under MV Pacific?

    Many thanks in advance.

    Stevin
     
  2. Mace

    Mace ex-rock ape

    Hi Stevin,

    Tracing civilian ships must be such a nightmare if all you have is the name!

    I did a quick check in a book I have (The Worlds Merchant Fleets, 1939) and came up with four examples of merchant ships with the name Pacific. There are an additional fifteen ships with with Pacific as the first part of their name!!

    Here is some basic information on the four ships just named Pacific for you information. Hope it helps?

    1. Pacific - British
    Line: W.H. Cockerline & Company
    Built: 1923
    Role: Used for general tramping
    Survived World War 2

    2. Pacific - Denmark
    Line: A/S Det, Store Nordiske Telegraf-Selskab
    Built: 1903
    Role; Cable Vessel
    Became a British Ministry of War Transport and survived World War 2

    3. Pacific - Sweden
    Line: Johnson Line
    Built: 1914
    Role: General Cargo Vessel
    Survived World War 2

    4. Pacific - US
    Line: American South African Line Inc
    Built: 1915
    Role: General Cargo Vessel
    Became a British Ministry of War Transport in 1940.
    Torpedoed 1st March 1941 by U95 when part of Convoy HX109 and sunk 180 miles WSW of Sydero Is, Faroes (34 casualties with 1 survivor)

    Best Regards

    Mace
     
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  3. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Stevin,

    Here is some basic information on the four ships just named Pacific for you information. Hope it helps?

    1. Pacific - British
    Line: W.H. Cockerline & Company
    Built: 1923
    Role: Used for general tramping
    Survived World War 2
    Mace

    Hello Mace,

    I am afraid the above is incorrect she did not survive.

    Cargo ship PACIFIC official number 147081 built in 1923 for Sir W.H.Cockerline. The British cargo ship PACIFIC left Sunderland on February 7th, 1943, in convoy for London carrying a cargo of coal. The convoy became scattered in bad weather during the night of the 8th, and at daybreak on the 9th, the PACIFIC and two other ships had disappeared. She carried a crew of 38.
    -------------------------

    ss PACIFIC official number 213769 built in 1915 for Union Iron Works, San Francisco CA. 1940 transferred to Minsistry of War Transport (Mowt) W.H. Cockerline & Co, Hull.
    2.3.1941: Torpedoed and sunk by U-95 (Schreiber), in the Atlantic 180 miles WSW of Sydero, Faroe Islands, while on a voyage from New York to Grangemouth via Halifax NS 13.2.41, with a cargo of 9000 tons of steel and scrap, part of convoy HX 109 comprising 37 ships. The Master, Capt Alan Francis King, and 33 crew were lost. 1 crew was rescued by Icelandic trawler DORA and landed at Fleetwood 5.3.41.

    Geoff's Search Engine is excellent but you do need to use it with caution. There were many ships named Pacific and also others with names such as Pacific Grove, Pacific President etc. So you have to be careful when researching these ships.

    Billy McGee over at Mercantile Marine Forum has a list of all Merchant Seamen lost at sea during WW2 and a post over there would be the way to go.

    By the way SS = Steamship and MV = Motor vessel.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  4. Mace

    Mace ex-rock ape

    Hi Hugh,

    Thanks for the correction. No mention of that in my book, but shows that you can never be to sure!

    Best Regards

    Mace
     
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  5. Stevin

    Stevin Member

    Thanks a lot guys! Very much appreciated. The Pacific Hugh mentions is the one I mean. It was part of convoy FS33.

    Interesting that both the SS and the MV were lost on the same day. Many thanks for that forum as well, Hugh!
     
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  6. JulianMHall

    JulianMHall Junior Member

    Many thanks from me too.. I'm researching Glamorgan men who died in the war and I couldn't find the Pacific on Wreck Wrack or Uboat.net

    Julian
     
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  7. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Just to confuse things further, some naval reports prefix all merchant ship s.s., regardless of whether they are steam or motor ships. An example: 'The convoy Commodore reported: Battle going on and S/S Charles L.D. torpedoed at 08:00 (zone). Weather was bad, a heavy gale and sea. The ship capsized, and I am afraid that only twelve out of forty-eight were saved.’ Charles L.D. was a motor ship.
     
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  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Two vessels with Pacific as a lone name from Tower Hill Memorial

    S.S. Pacific (Hull)
    upload_2019-2-10_10-39-34.png


    S.S. Pacific
    upload_2019-2-10_10-40-1.png
     
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  9. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    Pacific (Hull)

    Cargo ship Pacific, 2,816grt (W.H. Cockerline & Co.) loaded with a cargo of coal at Sunderland for London left Sunderland on the 7th February 1943 and was last reported on the 8th February. Nothing more was heard from the ship and her thirty-eight crewmembers and in March 1943 the ship was officially recorded as missing and a Joint Arbitration Committee considered the ship lost by “marine cause” A wreck presumed to be the Pacific was found just over eight miles East of Cromer in position 52’ 55N 01’ 30E. The bodies of three men eventually washed ashore off the Dutch coast and after being identified were laid to rest by the Dutch people.

    Pacific (1/3/1941)

    Cargo ship Pacific, 6,034grt, (W.H. Cockerline & Co.) loaded with a cargo of steel and scrap at New York for Grangemouth joined the 36 ship Convoy HX-109, which departed Halifax, Nova Scotia on the 13th February 1941. During the crossing the crossing the convoy encountered heavy weather and a number of ships became stragglers including the Pacific after her steering gear broke down and were forced to stop her engines. After five hours of repairs the ship was once again underway and attempted to catch up with the rest of the convoy. By the late evening of the 1st March the Pacific was proceeding 15 nautical miles North-West of the Isle of Lewis when the ship was hit by a torpedo from U-95 and immediately began to sink by the bow. The order to abandon ship was given and within thirty seconds a second torpedo slammed into the ship and the Pacific plunged beneath the waves in position 59’ 21N 13’ 36W, taking all but two men with her. The two survivors caught sight of each other, but one was soon swept away and never seen again. The sole survivor clung desperately to one of the ships hatch boards found floating by for an hour until a life raft, which had broken free as the ship went down floated past and he was able to scramble onboard. Suffering from the cold and exhaustion the raft drifted aimlessly. Sometime later a light was seen in the distance and the survivor began shouting and waving in a desperate attempt to gain the attention of whomever it maybe. Getting closer the object suddenly appeared out of the dark as that of a boat from the Icelandic trawler Dora, having witnessed the sinking, who took the man onboard. Explaining the possibility that another survivor may still be in the water, the trawler spent some time in a desperate search, to no avail and set off for Fleetwood to land the sole survivor ashore.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  10. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Just when I was getting confused - many thanks Billy. There was yet another Pacific, sunk in 1945, but that was a Dutch Schuyt
     
  11. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    To confuse matters even further there are 39 names recorded in the Register of Deaths for SS Pacific (Hull) reported Missing 9th Feb 1943 but 40 names appearing on the Crew agreement. A quick count of the names on the Tower Hill memorial posted by CL1 shows only 29
     
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  12. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    I only count 37 on the DAS register. It would be interesting to cross refer the Crew Agreement with DAS register - but I will say that the the DAS does have some mistakes and omissions in my experience. Not all names will appear on the Tower Hill memorial - for example the DEMS gunners will be recorded on the Naval memorials and the Indian seamen should be recorded on the Bombay/Chittagong memorials. Other Commonwealth seamen would also appear on their own memorials. Tower Hill does have some errors too.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  13. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    I can now account for 38 casualties from my records. There is one other man a “A. Beckett” listed in the Deaths at Sea Register, but his name has been crossed out, so presumably not on board at the time of her loss.

    Tower Hill Memorial

    ADAMSON, Ordinary Seaman, CHARLES WILLIAMSON, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 38. Husband of Margaret Adamson, of Wallsend, Northumberland.

    ADKINS, Cabin Boy, ERIC JOSEPH, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 18. Son of George Alexander Adkins and Therisa Adkins, of Durban, Natal, South Africa.

    ALLAN, Ordinary Seaman, HARRY AVERY, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 23. Son of Thomas Allan, and of Sarah Ann Allan, of Newcastle-on-Tyne.

    BETTS, Cook, WILLIAM LEONARD, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 37. Son of Charles and Elizabeth Betts; husband of Myfanwy Betts, of Barry, Glamorgan

    BROWN, Able Seaman, LEONARD, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 24. Son of Dinah Brown, of Walker, Newcastle-on-Tyne; husband of Doris Brown, of Newcastle-on-Tyne.

    BROWN, Chief Steward, WILLIAM SCOTT, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 36. Son of William and Jane Brown.

    BUCKLEY, Able Seaman, DANIEL, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 22. Son of Michael and Elizabeth Buckley, of Kinsale, Co. Cork, Irish Republic.

    CASSIM ABDUL, Greaser, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 44.

    CHANDOS-POLE, Master, PETER, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 38. Son of Christopher and Constance Chandos-Pole; husband of Hilda A. Chandospole, of Starcross, Devon.

    CHURCHER, Ordinary Seaman, DAVID HENRY, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 17. Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. Churcher, of Adamsdown, Cardiff.

    DONACHIE, Third Engineer Officer, ROBERT, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 54. Husband of Lily Donachie, of Southwick, Sunderland, Co. Durham.

    FALKENBERG, Able Seaman, EGON, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 24.

    GOULD, Ordinary Seaman, DONALD DOUGLAS, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 22. Son of Harry and Milinda Victoria Emily Gould, of Upper Parkstone, Dorsetshire.

    JABBER ABDUL, Greaser, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 33.

    KHAN HORMUZ, Fireman and Trimmer, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 28.

    LAKE, Cabin Boy, GEOFFREY NORMAN, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 21. Son of Thomas John and Marjorie Olive Lake, of Barry, Glamorgan.

    MEAH HASSAN, Fireman and Trimmer, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 24.

    MEAH SABROO, Fireman and Trimmer, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 29.

    MOROO ULLAH, Fireman and Trimmer, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 45.

    McILVEEN, Chief Officer, JAMES RONALD, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 31.

    O'BRIAN, Cabin Boy, IAN DENNIS SPENCER, M.V. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 16.

    ODDIE, First Radio Officer, FRANK, M.V. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 45. Son of Arthur and Elizabeth Oddie.

    RAHOMAN ABDUL, Donkeyman, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 32.

    SCOTT, Chief Engineer Officer, JOSHUA HANDMARCH, M.V. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 41. Husband of Laura Scott, of West Harrow, Middlesex.

    SHEEHAN, Able Seaman, PETER, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 24. Son of Thomas and Katherine Sheehan.

    STEPHENS, Third Engineer Officer, DAVID THOMAS, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 31.

    UDDIN ENTAZ, Fireman and Trimmer, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 33.

    ULLAH MOHAR, Fireman and Trimmer, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 28.

    YOUNG, Second Radio Officer, WALTER, S.S. Pacific (Hull.). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 19. Son of Joseph A. and Maud Young, of Walthamstow, Essex.

    Buried Ashore

    BAILEY, Third Officer, ARTHUR, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 23.

    BENSON, Able Seaman, JOHN LONGNER, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 39.

    JENKINS, Second Officer, DAVID HAINES, S.S. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 9th February 1943. Age 23. Son of William John and Jessie Maude Jenkins, of Treorchy, Glamorgan; husband of Elsie Jenkins

    DEMS/Naval Staff

    ALLENBY, Able Seaman, GEORGE THOMAS, P/JX339242. H.M.S. President III. Royal Navy. lost in S.S. Pacific (Hull). 9th February 1943. Age 35. Son of Thomas and Kate Eliza Allenby; husband of Jane Allenby, of Croft, Co. Durham.

    FINLAYSON, Able Seaman, FRED KIDD, C/JX 248826, S.S. Pacific, Royal Navy. 9 February 1943. Age 27. Son of Fred and Annie Finlayson; husband of Catherine Alice Finlayson, of Billingham, Co. Durham.

    GAIGER, Lance Bombardier, ALEXANDER PHILIP, 11422728, 3/2 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS Pacific) 9 February 1943. Age 19. Son of Alfred James and Harriet Hannah Gaiger, of Alderley Edge, Cheshire.

    HARRAHILL, Leading Seaman, ERNEST, D/MD/X 2237. R.N.V.R. H.M.S. President III. Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve. (S.S. Pacific) 9th February 1943. Age 23. Son of George Henry and Lily Harrahill, of Birkenhead.

    NEW, Gunner, JAMES HENRY, 11425549, 3 Bty., 2 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS Pacific) 9 February 1943. Age 19. Son of John and Constance New, of Dudley, Worcestershire. Grave Ref. Plot K. Row 2. Grave 2.

    WESTPEEL, Able Seaman, RONALD EDWARD, C/JX 314962. H.M.S. President III. Royal Navy. lost in S.S. Pacific. 9th February 1943.
     
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  14. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    Same ship, but for some reason listed as S.S. & M.V. with the CWGC.
     
  15. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    I have the names of 432 Merchant Seamen lost from WWII recorded with the CWGC as coming from Glamorgan. There are probably more, but the records are only as good as the information that was supplied to the Commission at the time of their deaths or by extra information given to them by family and next of kin.
     
  16. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    This is the 39th man registered from the Pacific, though this casualty was from the small Dutch coaster sunk off Falmouth carrying coal from Maryport.

    CULSHAW, Able Seaman, JAMES BERNARD, M.V. Pacific (Hull). Merchant Navy. 26th March 1945. Age 41. Buried Liverpool (Allerton) Cemetery. Sec. 19. R.C. Grave 777.
     
  17. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Billy,
    From memory five were lost from the M.V.Pacific in March 1945, were the others Dutch?
     
  18. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    Two British gunners and two Dutch crew.

    HUTSON
    , Gunner, JOHN, 1703363, 5 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS Pacific) 26 March 1945. Age 32. Son of Archibald and Mary Jane Leach Hutson; husband of Hannah Weatherhead Hutson, of Musselburgh, Midlothian.

    PERRYMAN, Lance Bombardier, DOUGLAS HENRY, 1595316, 6 Maritime Regt., Royal Artillery. (SS Pacific) 26 March 1945. Age 24. Son of Richard Henry and Maud Perryman.

    Theodorus Marie Johannes van Oosten (Able Seaman)
    Adrianus Pieter van Driel (Able Seaman)
     
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  19. Mike RNLN

    Mike RNLN New Member

    Able seaman GT Allenby.
    RIP at the cementary in Alkmaar, the Netherlands.
    Rests here with two other mates, a pilot and an observer.
    I thank those how made the biggest sacrifice for our freedom.

    Picture made: May 12 2019.
     

    Attached Files:

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