South Staffords, West Yorks & 5th Battalion East Yorks War Diaries

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by grayden, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. grayden

    grayden Member

    Hi All,
    I am researching my uncles war records, he was in the South Staffords, West Yorks and the 5th Battalion East Yorks for most of the war including D Day. Are the diaries mentioned above in the National Archives available and is there a cost? I have searched the references and it says the access is closed for 29 years is this correct. This is my first post so please be gentle;)

    Graham
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi All,
    I am researching my uncles war records, he was in the South Staffords, West Yorks and the 5th Battalion East Yorks for most of the war including D Day. Are the diaries mentioned above in the National Archives available and is there a cost? I have searched the references and it says the access is closed for 29 years is this correct. This is my first post so please be gentle;)

    Graham

    Hi Graham,

    The diaries mentioned by me are free to view and copy yourself at the National Archives. Alternatively I offer forum members a file copying service. Just click the link below in my signature for further info.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  4. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Graham,

    The 5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment was initially a second line battalion with the 23rd (Nothumbrian) Division, serving supposedly in a pioneer like role in Flanders in May/June 1940. After evacuation from Dunkirk they joined a first line outfit; still part of the 69th Infantry Brigade, but now from 1 July 1940 and for the duration part of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division.

    They had a hard but illustrious war, including being in the first wave of the landing on Gold Beech on D-Day.

    There are a few books covering the exploits of the 5th East Yorks. Let me know if you require details!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  5. grayden

    grayden Member

    Hi Andy,
    So it's not possible to download them on the web?

    Graham
     
  6. grayden

    grayden Member

    Thanks Owen for the info.

    Graham
     
  7. grayden

    grayden Member

    Hello Graham,

    The 5th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment was initially a second line battalion with the 23rd (Nothumbrian) Division, serving supposedly in a pioneer like role in Flanders in May/June 1940. After evacuation from Dunkirk they joined a first line outfit; still part of the 69th Infantry Brigade, but now from 1 July 1940 and for the duration part of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division.

    They had a hard but illustrious war, including being in the first wave of the landing on Gold Beech on D-Day.

    There are a few books covering the exploits of the 5th East Yorks. Let me know if you require details!

    Best,

    Steve.

    Hi Steve,
    According to his service record card, my uncle was in three regiments the South Staffs (16/3/40-6/12/41), West yorks (16/1241-18/10/42) and the East Yorks 18/1042-12/6/46). He was in North Africa first then I think Italy then I think D Day. I have applied for his service records but I have been informed that it will take 9 - 12 months. He died in 2007 but although we were very close he would not talk about the war only in little bits towards the end, so I am trying to piece together his war experience and put it together in a document for the family. I have a few interesting personal effects like the copy of General Eisenhower's D Day address which is signed by, I assume all his mates. I now know he was in the first wave on Gold beach and also he was missing believed killed twice and wounded twice (no wonder he didn't want to talk about it!) It would be really great if any of them were still alive to talk to. As for the books, yes I would be really interested as I read anything connected with WW2.

    Graham
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Andy,
    So it's not possible to download them on the web?

    Graham

    No, WW2 War Diaries are not online and I don't think complete diaries from WW2 will ever be online.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  9. grayden

    grayden Member

    No, WW2 War Diaries are not online and I don't think complete diaries from WW2 will ever be online.

    Cheers
    Andy

    Thanks Andy,

    I will have to decide which are relevant or not and then maybe use your copying service.
    Graham
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    If you post what battalions he was with, in the regiments you have listed above I will post the units war diaries details on this thread for you.

    There maybe a number infront of the South Staffs, West and East Yorks which will identify his battalion within each regiment. If there is no number it will be recorded in his service records.
     
  11. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hi Steve,
    According to his service record card, my uncle was in three regiments the South Staffs (16/3/40-6/12/41), West yorks (16/1241-18/10/42) and the East Yorks 18/1042-12/6/46). He was in North Africa first then I think Italy then I think D Day. I have applied for his service records but I have been informed that it will take 9 - 12 months. He died in 2007 but although we were very close he would not talk about the war only in little bits towards the end, so I am trying to piece together his war experience and put it together in a document for the family. I have a few interesting personal effects like the copy of General Eisenhower's D Day address which is signed by, I assume all his mates. I now know he was in the first wave on Gold beach and also he was missing believed killed twice and wounded twice (no wonder he didn't want to talk about it!) It would be really great if any of them were still alive to talk to. As for the books, yes I would be really interested as I read anything connected with WW2.

    Graham

    Hello Graham,

    Your uncle joined the 5th Bn East Yorks five days before El Alamein (the second and more famous of the two battles). He would most likely have been involved in the push across Eyypt, Libya and Tunisia - including the battles at Mareth (Wadi 'Zig Zag') and Wadi Akarit. Then back to Egypt at the end of April 1943 to prepare for Operation Husky, the invasion of Sicily. Then in Sicily for the whole of the campaign July/August 1943. Then back to the UK in September 1943 in preparation for D-Day and the NW Europe Campaign - 6 June to 30 November 1944. Then, as he stayed in the 5th Bn East Yorks, probably back to the UK as part of a training cadre; Monty saying that the 50th (Northumbrian) Division 'had done enough'.

    The reference to Italy is more likely to mean Sicily...

    There are two reasonably priced books that I have that you will probably enjoy:

    1) The Story of The 5th Battalion The East Yorkshire Regiment TA by L M Garwood (Highgate); and
    2) The Sign of the Double 'T' by B S Barnes (Sentinel).

    This latter book covers only the Sicilian campaign and up to December 1944, but has a lot of good information and the soldiers insights in it. The first book is the battalion history.

    I have more book recommendations if you wish to read wider on 50 Div.

    NB. The 5th Bn East Yorks were brigaded with the 6th and 7th Bn's Green Howards throughout. Obtaining additional information about these latter two battalions will give you further insights.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
    grayden likes this.
  12. grayden

    grayden Member

    I really appreciate that Andy, however I have no sure way of knowing the battalion numbers until I get his service records which could be a while yet. I have a record of service card which he must have received in 1946 when he was demobbed with the regiments on (as above) but aerograms sent to my mother conflict with the service record. The first aerogram 24/4/41 gives his address as A Coy West Yorks Regmt. M.E.F The second 25/10/41 is the same address and the third 24/3/43 'A' 'A' H.G. 5th East Yorks Regmt. 8th Army Tripoli. I think he remained in the East Yorks for the remainder of the war because he was in D Day and I think it was only the 5th battalion that was engaged in the landings. I will be grateful for any information you can provide.

    Regards

    Graham
     
  13. grayden

    grayden Member

    Hello Graham,

    Your uncle joined the 5th Bn East Yorks five days before El Alamein (the second and more famous of the two battles). He would most likely have been involved in the push across Eyypt, Libya and Tunisia - including the battles at Mareth (Wadi 'Zig Zag') and Wadi Akarit. Then back to Egypt at the end of April 1943 to prepare for Operation Husky, the invasion of Sicily. Then in Sicily for the whole of the campaign July/August 1943. Then back to the UK in September 1943 in preparation for D-Day and the NW Europe Campaign - 6 June to 30 November 1944. Then, as he stayed in the 5th Bn East Yorks, probably back to the UK as part of a training cadre; Monty saying that the 50th (Northumbrian) Division 'had done enough'.

    The reference to Italy is more likely to mean Sicily...

    There are two reasonably priced books that I have that you will probably enjoy:

    1) The Story of The 5th Battalion The East Yorkshire Regiment TA by L M Garwood (Highgate); and
    2) The Sign of the Double 'T' by B S Barnes (Sentinel).

    This latter book covers only the Sicilian campaign and up to December 1944, but has a lot of good information and the soldiers insights in it. The first book is the battalion history.

    I have more book recommendations if you wish to read wider on 50 Div.

    NB. The 5th Bn East Yorks were brigaded with the 6th and 7th Bn's Green Howards throughout. Obtaining additional information about these latter two battalions will give you further insights.

    Best,

    Steve.

    Hi Steve,

    I have just posted a reply the Andy when your reply appeared which is super information. He was in the Africa campaign but where he went is sketchy so that is very useful.Yes he did say he was in three invasions Sicily, France and one other which I can't remember. He did finish in Norway in operation Doomsday and I have a scroll signed by King Gustav thanking him for his part. I also have a photo of him guarding the King, Monty and General Waverley.

    Thanks for the books I will see if I can get hold of them.

    Once again many thanks I have gleaned more information in a couple of days on this site than I have in the last 6 months.

    regards,

    Graham
     
  14. 2EastYorks

    2EastYorks Senior Member

    I think he remained in the East Yorks for the remainder of the war because he was in D Day and I think it was only the 5th battalion that was engaged in the landings. I will be grateful for any information you can provide.

    Regards

    Graham

    Outrageous! :D

    The 2nd Battalion, including my Grandad, were in the first wave ashore on Sword Beach.

    If I recall correctly, the East Yorkshires were the only regiment to land two battalions on D-Day?
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The first aerogram 24/4/41 gives his address as A Coy West Yorks Regmt. M.E.F The second 25/10/41 is the same address and the third 24/3/43 'A' 'A' H.G. 5th East Yorks Regmt. 8th Army Tripoli. I think he remained in the East Yorks for the remainder of the war because he was in D Day and I think it was only the 5th battalion that was engaged in the landings. I will be grateful for any information you can provide.

    Regards

    Graham

    Hi Graham,

    As you can see, without the battalions he served with you'd just be guessing-Whilst the wait can be long for the service records its the best way forward to confirm the battalions. With this info I'll tell you the diaries you would want to view at Kew.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
    grayden likes this.
  16. grayden

    grayden Member

    Outrageous! :D

    The 2nd Battalion, including my Grandad, were in the first wave ashore on Sword Beach.

    If I recall correctly, the East Yorkshires were the only regiment to land two battalions on D-Day?
    Sorry! you are correct. I was looking at the Landing Table for Gold beach as I knew my uncle went ashore near Arromanches (which is why I assumed he was in the 5th battalion) but now I see the landing table for Sword beach and the 2nd Battalion East Yorks are there too. I am now slightly confused which one he was actually in on D Day until I get his service records. Did your grandad follow the same route as posted by Steve above or was it different?

    I have visited your site and it looks very good up to press.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  17. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Outrageous! :D

    The 2nd Battalion, including my Grandad, were in the first wave ashore on Sword Beach.

    If I recall correctly, the East Yorkshires were the only regiment to land two battalions on D-Day?

    Sorry! you are correct. I was looking at the Landing Table for Gold beach as I knew my uncle went ashore near Arromanches (which is why I assumed he was in the 5th battalion) but now I see the landing table for Sword beach and the 2nd Battalion East Yorks are there too. I am now slightly confused which one he was actually in on D Day until I get his service records. Did your grandad follow the same route as posted by Steve above or was it different?

    I have visited your site and it looks very good up to press.

    Regards,

    Graham

    Hello Matt,

    The Green Howards landed two battalions - 6th and 7th - on Gold Beech and The Durham Light Infantry landed three battalions - 6th, 8th and 9th on Gold Beech; all on D-Day as assault battalions.

    Hello Graham,

    I thought you knew your uncle was in the 5th Bn East Yorks?!?

    I think it is still the better bet/favourite of the two East Yorks battalions, just because of the theatres in which you said your uncle served and where he landed on D-Day. Indeed, the 50th (Northumbrian) Division sent troops to Norway after the Germans surrendered, which I understand was made up mainly of retrained anti-aircraft gunners and it was retraining such troops that the cadre that returned to the UK in December 1944 was tasked with.

    Time will tell - the service records will reveal all!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  18. grayden

    grayden Member

    Hello Matt,

    The Green Howards landed two battalions - 6th and 7th - on Gold Beech and The Durham Light Infantry landed three battalions - 6th, 8th and 9th on Gold Beech; all on D-Day as assault battalions.

    Hello Graham,

    I thought you knew your uncle was in the 5th Bn East Yorks?!?

    I think it is still the better bet/favourite of the two East Yorks battalions, just because of the theatres in which you said your uncle served and where he landed on D-Day. Indeed, the 50th (Northumbrian) Division sent troops to Norway after the Germans surrendered, which I understand was made up mainly of retrained anti-aircraft gunners and it was retraining such troops that the cadre that returned to the UK in December 1944 was tasked with.

    Time will tell - the service records will reveal all!

    Best,

    Steve.

    Hi Steve, Yes I thought I did but there may be a slight doubt now. I am 90% sure on the evidence so far that it was the 5th battalion but the service records will show. I applied for the records in June but they replied to say it would be 9 to 12 months due to other work. I have dropped them a letter last week asking if there is any progress.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  19. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hi Steve, Yes I thought I did but there may be a slight doubt now. I am 90% sure on the evidence so far that it was the 5th battalion but the service records will show. I applied for the records in June but they replied to say it would be 9 to 12 months due to other work. I have dropped them a letter last week asking if there is any progress.

    Regards,

    Graham

    Hello Graham,

    The 2nd Bn East Yorks were in the 8th Infantry Brigade, 3rd Division; and were not in N Africa or Siciliy (Italy). The 2nd Bn were in the UK between their withdrawal from Dunkirk and returning to France on D-Day. The 2nd Bn did not land near Arromanches...

    Based on what you have posted previously I am 99% certain your uncle was in the 5th Bn. It would be great though if his service records arrived shortly and confirmed this! :)

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  20. grayden

    grayden Member

    Hi Steve,
    I've ordered The Story of the 5th Battalion East Yorks from ebay £9.50 and Operation Scipio about the battle fro Wadi Akarit from the National Army Museum (£2.50 +PP) which I feel sure he was involved in. I will order the Sign of the Double T (operation Husky) a little later.

    Many thanks for all your help.

    Regards
    Graham
     

Share This Page