South Osethia/Georgia/Russia - let's discuss

At this time I have no clue what our authorities planning to do with Georgia - but hope this will end soon with signing peace agreement between S.Ossetia and Georgia (EU diplomats brougth it to Moscow today).
F those EU diplomats, Russia should decide on its own. I think EU need to step on the ground.
Georgian president must be accused on genocide against civilians, but EU won't do that of course, they want some old ex-serbian generals to grease there hands, and to play court.
It was so damn funny how the world made Russia to look like the bad part of that war :p

 

F those EU diplomats, Russia should decide on its own. I think EU need to step on the ground.
Georgian president must be accused on genocide against civilians, but EU won't do that of course, they want some old ex-serbian generals to grease there hands, and to play court.
It was so damn funny how the world made Russia to look like the bad part of that war :p

I'm still reading some foreign press and found that bbc.co.uk finally written that Georgia begun an agression on S.Ossetia not Russia on Georgia the EU's opinion is changing, but not the USA's authorities'.

Also president Medvedev ordered to stop all military operations against Georgia, as it is now forced to (rest in) peace Looks lile everything going to some end...

 

I'm still reading some foreign press and found that bbc.co.uk finally written that Georgia begun an agression on S.Ossetia not Russia on Georgia the EU's opinion is changing, but not the USA's authorities'.

Also president Medvedev ordered to stop all military operations against Georgia, as it is now forced to (rest in) peace Looks lile everything going to some end...
Well you know Russia and USA are aways a bit of a enemys :p
I can't believe that Bulgarian press actually didn't covered it up, just said the truth. Our best television channel's director is actually american
Hey deadb_tch why did russian army attacked a gas pipe in Georgia ?

 

Hi guys

Very passionate discussion. The temperature has been rising there for a few weeks it seems to me. The flash was probably inevitable and the Russian response was very large and quick so troops must have been concentrating nearby for a whlie. From what I saw on the news the Georgians were throwing Katushas at the area, hardly a surgical strike. Can the Georgians really be surprised at the Russian response?

The Russians appear to have gone in very hard and gained quick gains probably at maximum Georgian cost, whilst minimising their own casualties. Attacking airfields outside of the immediate zone would be natural to avert potential counter airstrikes. These are the sort of activities that any major military force would do (look at the US total immediate neutralisation of Iraqi air defence in 1991 when looking to free Kuwait).

What really worries me is that these small ex-Soviet countries are seeking to join NATO, often at the behest of the West. Would that have meant an obligation to send NATO troops, in line with the Treaty, against the Russians to defend another Member despite triggering the Russian response?

 

Well you know Russia and USA are aways a bit of a enemys :p
I can't believe that Bulgarian press actually didn't covered it up, just said the truth. Our best television channel's director is actually american
Hey deadb_tch why did russian army attacked a gas pipe in Georgia ?

..but keep in mind that who's the enemy and who's not determine leaders/authorities not the people, so this hostility for me is VERY artificial...

What if tomorrow your media will tell that Russia is the enemy would you beleive it in one moment? Me in your case - not. Because word Russia for them means something methaphoric, but Russia is not only territory or its government, it is mostly people like any other country. So in fact all this wars like those in S.Ossetia or in Iraq are necessary for little group of people that holding power in country... and most of their citizens have no clue why their country needs to send their troops there to be killed by someone 'very bad' or confront with some 'bad nation'... That's politics and its word is very dark for me..

Georgia's president ordered to attack S.Ossetia for some mostly unknow for its people reasons and they 've became victims of his strange ambitions...

 

Hi guys

Very passionate discussion. The temperature has been rising there for a few weeks it seems to me. The flash was probably inevitable and the Russian response was very large and quick so troops must have been concentrating nearby for a whlie. From what I saw on the news the Georgians were throwing Katushas at the area, hardly a surgical strike. Can the Georgians really be surprised at the Russian response?

The Russians appear to have gone in very hard and gained quick gains probably at maximum Georgian cost, whilst minimising their own casualties. Attacking airfields outside of the immediate zone would be natural to avert potential counter airstrikes. These are the sort of activities that any major military force would do (look at the US total immediate neutralisation of Iraqi air defence in 1991 when looking to free Kuwait).

What really worries me is that these small ex-Soviet countries are seeking to join NATO, often at the behest of the West. Would that have meant an obligation to send NATO troops, in line with the Treaty, against the Russians to defend another Member despite triggering the Russian response?

Hi, Auditman seems like you understand what have been done in this conflict very good, and I also think that airstrikes on airfields was necessary although there is no bombs that can hit bulls eye, unfortunately

Agree with you about ex-USSR countries wich leaders (how shows us history of Georgia-Ossetia conflict) have some weird ambitions that become only to human victims... And I've rread simliar analytics about what if Georgia was already NATO country and then NATO would attack Russia to support Georgia... Damn, loolks like WW III

 

While looking for foto of russian 'battle trousers' found this photo of so-called "elite paratroopers" (actually they are hiding under abbreviation VDV or ВДВ):

 

Russia will be acclaimed when people wish to emigrate to Russia.It will be up to the Russian leadership to achieve the attraction of a new life.I have to say that I saw an article which said it would take 20 years for Russia to achieve the freedom of the West.My Russian contact retorted. "More like 80 years"

Looking at the fabric of the conflict, I would say that Russia requires to give its people, real reason to stay in Russia.

 

Russia will be acclaimed when people wish to emigrate to Russia.It will be up to the Russian leadership to achieve the attraction of a new life.I have to say that I saw an article which said it would take 20 years for Russia to achieve the freedom of the West.My Russian contact retorted. "More like 80 years"

Looking at the fabric of the conflict, I would say that Russia requires to give its people, real reason to stay in Russia.

I agree - we'r back from the west for about 100 years I think.. And we just can't catch up it in 20 years..

Sadly talking here's no many reasons to stay here at now - especially because of wild capatalism that we have here, because of gevernment and many other things... hope this will change at least in the end of my life and life of our children will be more better.

EDIT: wow, 777th post, woohoo sad post with happy number

 

Why west, why we should be with the west?
Western model is far from perfect, in the east we are slavic- nations, our culture and traditions are older then the western nations.
There is not freedom in the west too, government is stronger in every country, if people controled UK, the country wont send armys in Iraq because, normal people dont want war, they dont need war, politics need war, to make business.
Deadb_tch our people survived many years from 2-3 century to now without fallowing any model !!

 

No offence mate.......I've been to Bulgaria quite a few times and I'd rather live in the UK cheers.

Each to their own I guess

 

No offence mate.......I've been to Bulgaria quite a few times and I'd rather live in the UK cheers.

Each to their own I guess

Man, that's not because they have no good democracy etc. that's because their life level is lower than in UK, just the infrastructure of whole country is developed poor than in UK. That's simple answer for why they or us r living worse than u in UK. Give 'em a time and money - they will develope it... Even without western democracy..

 

Why west, why we should be with the west?
Western model is far from perfect, in the east we are slavic- nations, our culture and traditions are older then the western nations.
There is not freedom in the west too, government is stronger in every country, if people controled UK, the country wont send armys in Iraq because, normal people dont want war, they dont need war, politics need war, to make business.
Deadb_tch our people survived many years from 2-3 century to now without fallowing any model !!

I was referring to the Freedom sentence my friend.

Anyway.....What is the latest from Georgia? The BBC is reporting that Russian troops have moved into Gorni and are looting and burning houses.

Any truth in this ?

 

I was referring to the Freedom sentence my friend.

Anyway.....What is the latest from Georgia? The BBC is reporting that Russian troops have moved into Gorni and are looting and burning houses.

Any truth in this ?

Looks like some kind of misinformation because I've read only about 'cleanings' on the border of S.Ossetia that is doing by ossetian spetznaz and no info about our troops in Gori, but if some BBC facts is true I think they r completely destroying amry base there ... Anyway, sad fact about civilians if that shit took place, but this is what makes war very dirt shit. BTW, our Defence Office increased count of dead soldiers of peacekeeping unit - now its about 70s and what is most sad that (looks like approved fact) georgians heavily tortured (smashed genitals for ex.) our POWs (from peacekeeping unit, they didn't opened fire in the beginning because of lack of order) captured in first 2 days, those who freed r now sent to Moscow's hospitals ... poor young men (they r all about my gender).

 

No offence mate.......I've been to Bulgaria quite a few times and I'd rather live in the UK cheers.

Each to their own I guess
No offence taken, i understand you, but im calling myself bulgarian not because of the life or the fency citys you got in UK, im calling myself bulgarian because of the old tradition, the culture, the history, and most importantly the nature. My country have great nature, medieval castles, the first orthodox churches are build in Bulgaria.
Most of you here like history, and my country has great historical value.
And do not forget that my country have been part of the communist regime that crushed our country. If there wasn't comunism in my country we could have been even better then UK. After the liberation of Bulgaria around the late 1880s Bulgaria was even better developed then most countrys in the west.
But your right i cant be proud by infrastructure, great and big citys, great football teams, great army, huge budget, but i believe that sometimes man must be proud by what the others DON'T and CAN'T have.

About the Georgian conflict, i think that the conflict will still go on, between South Osettia and Georgia, because many people have been left without homes and familys.. that will spreed hatred in the region

 

We have some pretty good churches and castles here too my friend.

York Minster



Leeds Castle



Sorry to keep hijacking the thread by the way

 

No doubt Drew, but our civilization is far older then English, and there are many cultures here, like byzantine, roman, ottoman.
No doubt that England have great history also.

 

Yeah old QB didn't do a bad job I'm told and ya got to love them druids

Looks like the US are going to be getting boots on the ground soon:
BBC NEWS | World | US forces to deliver Georgia aid

 

Attacking airfields outside of the immediate zone would be natural to avert potential counter airstrikes. These are the sort of activities that any major military force would do (look at the US total immediate neutralisation of Iraqi air defence in 1991 when looking to free Kuwait).

Totally true. What puzzles anyone is the logic of western media - accusing Russia of attacking Georgian facilities out of conflict zone, while the same thing was done by NATO in Serbia back in 1999. The North Atlantic Alliance bombed and destroyed 3 bridges in Novi Sad, bombed down town Nis with hundreds of cluster bombs, hit many bridges, railroads even civilian houses and killed over 1500 Serbian civilians. Western politicians referred to the this as "collateral damage", and still they have the nerd to blame Russia of doing what ever it's doing in Georgia

Would that have meant an obligation to send NATO troops, in line with the Treaty, against the Russians to defend another Member despite triggering the Russian response?

I believe it would under the terms of the agreement, but I do not think west would go into war with Russia as it would mean annihilation of most EU countries and also a lot if not all US cities by Russian nukes. Of course, Russia would be sent back to stone age as well, there'd be no winner, perhaps Mad Max scenery would become reality

Another thing, anyone with descent education knows that Bulgaria was an Empire, one of the strongest, most powerful in Europe of the time. As far as oldest Orthodox churches go - I am not really convinced, the oldest ones must be in what's today Israel and Greece as Christianity came to Bulgaria and to other Slavic nations from Byzantium. Didn't Cirilo and Metodije bring it there? In the time the Church was united as it happened a couple of centuries before 1054.

But, however, the Bulgarian soldier is right about Slavic nations having no need to look up to the west for its material wellbeing. The protestant ethics does not apply to Slavic nations. They certainly do not believe the amount of wealth is in direct proportion to God's grace. There are a lot of things Slavs should be proud about. Fo rexample, when Friedrich Barbarossa stayed at Stephen Nemanja's court (Father of Saint Sava and ancestor of King Milutin @BulgarianSoldier) - he saw a fork for the first time in his life, before that he and the others where he came from eat with their fingers. Croats invented tie. Another Balkan nation (although not Slavic) - Greeks invented democracy itself. I had the opportunity to visit both Bulgaria and USA and though material weal;th i snot to be compared - I'd choose to live in Bulgaria any day. I wouldn't miss gay parades, mass murders, Oprah or jerry springer at all.

 

I'm missing the point of this thread. It appeared to me that it was to be a discussion of the fighting in the nation of Georgia, but has devolved into cheerleading session for an entirely different country.

After taking a cursory look over the previous posts, I see no one has spoken with ill will toward Bulgarians as a people, but there seems to be pronounced desire to promote the greatness and grandure of the country, of which no one is arguing against, all the while the original subject is ignored.

Granted I have offered little in the way of substantive material to this intercourse and have made my reasoning for this quite plain in earlier posts. As the thread has developed only serves to reinforce the position I have taken.