Soldiers Death

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by CL1, Feb 22, 2021 at 11:33 AM.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Raised in the Houses of Parliament 7th October 1941


    Soldier's Death
    8.

    Mr. Silverman
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    asked the Secretary of State for War in what circumstances 3386493 Private J. Grogan met his death; whether he died while under detention by military police; whether his death was the result of violence committed upon him by the guards responsible for his safety; whether his relatives were represented, or had the opportunity to be represented, at the subsequent inquest; and whether he will now order a general inquiry into all the circumstances?

    Captain Margesson
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    The finding of the coroner's court was that the soldier in question died by justifiable homicide as a result of injuries received from military policemen whilst attempting to escape from custody. So far as I am aware the relatives were not represented at the inquest, but my hon. Friend will appreciate that the arrangements for an inquest are not a matter for the military authorities. The most searching inquiries have been instituted by the military authorities and the civil police into the circumstances of this case, and, while I have the greatest sympathy with the soldier's relatives, there is no reason to suppose that further inquiries would bring any new facts to light.

    Mr. Silverman
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    Is the right, hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that 11 soldiers stationed at this point wrote to the parents of the dead soldier, protesting, and can

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    he say whether at any of the investigations the evidence of these 11 soldiers was taken?


    Captain Margesson
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    I understand that these II soldiers afterwards denied that they had understood what they had signed

    Mr. Silverman
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    Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the inquest took place within less than 24 hours of the death, and that the parents could not possibly have had any opportunity of being represented at the inquiry?

    Captain Margesson
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    As I said in my answer, I think my hon. Friend will appreciate that the arrangements for inquests are not a matter for the military authorities.

    Mr. Silverman
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    Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman agree that in any case, where a person has died as the result of the action of his guardians, it is in the public interest, and as much in the interests of the Army as anyone else, that there should be the fullest and most public inquiry possible?

    Captain Margesson
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    I agree, and I have every confidence also in the coroner.

    Mr. Silverman
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    In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I propose to raise the matter again.

    British Army - Tuesday 7 October 1941 - Hansard - UK Parliament


    PRIVATE JAMES GROGAN
    Service Number: 3386493
    Regiment & Unit/Ship
    East Lancashire Regiment

    2nd Bn.

    Date of Death

    Died 25 March 1941

    Age 19 years old

    Buried or commemorated at
    HAYWARDS HEATH (WESTERN ROAD) CEMETERY

    Plot R.C.U. Grave 49.

    United Kingdom


    • Country of ServiceUnited Kingdom
    • Additional InfoSon of John and Mildred Grogan, of Huyton Quarry, Lancashire.
    • Personal InscriptionDIED IN A SAD WAY BUT GOD WILL REPAY. REST IN PEACE


    [​IMG]
    James Grogan (Unknown-1941) - Find A Grave...
     
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: James Grogan
    Given Initials: J
    Rank: Private
    Death Date: 25 Mar 1941
    Number: 3386493
    Birth Place: Liverpool
    Residence: Liverpool
    Regiment at Enlistment: East Lancashire Regiment
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: United Kingdom
    Regiment at Death: East Lancashire Regiment
    Branch at Death: Infantry



    Wonder if this is his death cert details
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: James Grogan
    Death Age: 21
    Birth Date: abt 1920
    Registration Date: Jan 1941
    [Feb 1941]
    [Mar 1941]
    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration District: Cuckfield
    Inferred County: Sussex
    Volume: 2b
    Page: 449

    Possibly as Haywards Heath (where he is buried) and Cuckfield (where his death is registered) are relatively close

    TD
     
  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    He made the casualty list:
    Grogan 1.jpg
    The Leader, Friday, December 5, 1941

    Grogan 2.jpg
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hmm am I right - the article talks about March 1940, yet he died in March 1941 ??

    TD
     
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  5. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    You are - they must be wrong!
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    You mean journalists sometimes get things wrong :omg:

    TD

    I would still be interested to read what the death cert says was the cause having read the above
     
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  7. snailer

    snailer Country Member

  8. Shiny 9th

    Shiny 9th Member

    Interesting Inscription on the headstone.Not seen one like that before....
     
    timuk likes this.

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