Hello, What was the exact size of a BEF Infantry Division in May 1940 (e.g. 3rd Infantry Division)? Is the figure 11600 men correct? Dirk
Sounds a bit low, I get a provisional total of 12,849, while Joslen has 13,863. It depends sometimes how you count attached personnel, such as the Int Sec and LADs. Gary
I would assume Australian divisions would be along the same lines as British yet the Australian 9th division is listed as16,000-18,000.
Hello Dirk, Some Divisions were motorised prior to the outbreak of WWII and reduced from three Brigades to two. So, for example, the 50th (Northumbrian) Division went from three Brigades to two in late 1938, losing the 149th Infantry Brigade - all Royal Northumberland Fusliers. Of that brigade, only one of the three battalions, the 4th Bn Royal Northumberland Fusliers, stayed with 50 Div and served with them in the BEF as their Recce battalion. You will need to build this factor into your reseach. Best, Steve.
Hello again, Dirk, See Appendix A in this link: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Flanders/index.html#contents * There were three infantry battalions in an infantry brigade and either, two or three brigades in an infantry division; depending on if they were motorised infantry or not. So, an infantry brigade was supposed to be 2,340 infantry boot strength and a full three brigade Division would, therefore, be 7,020, plus Divisonal troops being Recce Battalion, Field Artillery (3 Regiments), Anti-tank Regiment, Engineers (3 Coys plus), Divisional Signals, RASC units, RAMC (3 Field Ambulance units). In addition, there would be the Brigade HQ's and troops and Divisional HQ and troops. Best, Steve.
This table on British and Canadian divisional organisation is from the book Corps Commander, by Lieutenant General Sir Brian Horrocks, who commanded XXX Corps in the North West Europe campaign. It's spread over two pages, so you need to read downwards - hopefully it should be legible. The key figures are 14,964 personnel for an armoured division, 18,347 for an infantry division and 12,148 for an airborne division. You will see from the footnote that an infantry division also needed three transport companies, or 270 lorries, to move all its battalions in one go.
The Inf Div was somewhat smaller early on in the war, no MG Bn or LAA Regt, and the fighting units tended to be a bit lighter than the later war models. I've found out why I disagree with the Joslen figures by so many, that has to be based on the Higher Establishment Inf Bn drafted in April 1940. I suspect that few units got the extra 111 ORs required in the few weeks available before the German offensive. I've put my figures into an attachment in case they're of use, note these are based on the authorised strengths, which is what I've assumed the original query was about. Gary
Dirk I'm assuming its Monty's 3rd Infantry Division you are interested in? If so this should cover it: Officers 544 Warrant Officers 318 Staff Sergeants and Sergeants 674 Rank and File 13,201 Other Ranks 14,193 Total All Ranks 14,737
I can also list the number of weapons in a BEF Infantry Division and the numbers of both by unit if necessary
Gary and Steve thanks for the help. Andy - it is Monty's 3rd Infantry Division I'm interested in. May I know the source of the exact total: 14,737 ? Thanks, Dirk
Its from Alan Philson's BEF Organisation and Order of Battle 10th May 1940. The figures given are for a Infantry Division which the 3rd Division in 1940 would fall under.
Andy, Thanks Again! Is it from Volume I of Alan Philson's BEF Organisation and Order of Battle 10th May 1940? Cheers, Dirk
I think Alan's total includes the First Reinforcements, another 744 all ranks, plus the att ten LADs and the Int Sec, 142 all ranks, and 2 RAF pers to HQRA, to make 14,737, to add the 888 difference from my stab. I can't quite get the same rank split, but I don't have the full WE for the LADs, which might explain it. Gary
BEF Divisions, 1940: At Dunkirk: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 12th (elements), 23rd, 42nd, 44th, 46th, 48th, 50th, 1st Armoured (elements, escaped from Calais) Not at Dunkirk: 12th (elements), 51st, 52nd, 1st Canadian, 1st Armoured, "Beauman" (provisonal organization, including elements of 12th Div)
