Six Airmen 76/78 Sqdn.?? etc & CU1652: and Identity thereof?

From a photo on the IBCC site from the 78 Squadron page, and likely from the Pattisson collection taken during Halifax CU (1652) training in Spring time 1942.Feb/April




In front of a Armoured hangar door. (repair shed?)

Standing.
Pattisson, in RAF tunic with two Sergeants tabs.
Lawson in RCAF Battle dress.
Thom in RAF Battle dress and one Sergeants tabs on the Right sleeve.
Seated.
Howell in RAF Battle dress and one Sergeants tabs on the Right sleeve.
Hockaday in RAF Battle dress and Officers Cap.
Culmsee in RAF Battle dress and No arm tabs.

Judging by the clothing and 78 Sqdn conversion flight being in the Spring time from Whitley V,s to Halifax IIBs. 76 & 78 Sqdn,s being stationed on the same airfield. Croft Nov 41 to June 42

from the above names.
F/Sgt. Charles (Dick) Pattisson RAFVR 1264245 Pilot Halifax II R9447 of 78 Sqdn. missing/killed on 24-9-42 to Flensburg on the last of his 5 sorties in September 42.

P/O John. S. Lawson RCAF J/15200 Pilot From OTU 10 to 78 Sqdn. on 17/9/41 from 20/9/41 to 18/12.41. Completed 10 operational sorties flying Whitley V with 78 Squadron. Promoted to P/O on 4/2/42
BATF - Beam (originally Blind) Approach Training Flight, Middleton St George, 20-28/1/42
1652 CU Marston Moor 16-22/2/42
1-2/6/42 Missing/killed in his regular Halifax II R9364 the aircraft being damaged by flak and breaking up on crashing some 30 miles off the Hook of Holland, after making an SOS. 2 crew survived, one being F/Sgt. T.B Millar GC. and both being POW,s after sometime in a Life-raft. (Pattisson in DG221 was also on this sortie)

Sgt. Thom. Not getting much on this one. Name, spelling. age, and aircraft type, Squadron ,to come up with anything which fits. Anyone with more details of Thom?

Sgt Howell. Could be A.T Howell 22yrs. Killed in Accident with CU 1652 GV-E L9576 14-4-42, but seems a rather long time at the CU Feb 42 to April.42. Anyone anymore details for Howell for confirmation.

P/O D.R. Hockaday. 104531 78 Sqdn. Lost on 13-3-42, EY-Q Whitley V, Z9214, 2nd Pilot.

P/O William Culmsee. 104516 76 Sqdn. Lost on 12-4-42, MP-X, Halifax II, R9487 2nd Pilot.

(The ORB records R9487 MP-A?, being one the first Bombers to drop the 2x4 (8000lbs) bombs, unfortunately this is a typo, and the correct serial number is R9457 for MP-A The Pilot being P/O Renaut)



Having looked through the ORB for 76/78 Sqdn. in this time frame still not finding a Sgt. Thom, or Howell. as Pilots or 2nd Pilots

Ref.

List of conversion units of the Royal Air Force - Wikipedia
Aircraft accidents in Yorkshire.

 

Acton Gazette April 24 1942



Regards,

Dave

 

"and on Boxing Day he was made the Captain of His Aircraft"
(In more ways than one?)

Back to ORB of 78 Sqdn.!

Nov 41.Whitley Vs
1-11-41 Z6490 Howell 2nd pilot.
??-11-41 Z6490 Howell 2nd pilot (spelt Hewell)
30-11-41 Z9386 Howell 2nd pilot. (spelt Hewell)

Dec 41.
7-12-41 Z9129 Howell 2nd pilot
17-12-41 Z9219 Howell 2nd pilot This is my favourite comment from the ORB of the 17-12-41. (and why he was made captain may be.)
From the attached below ORB, because it is difficult to read and faint. transcribed below.

"This aircraft (Z9219) reached the Solent area when the engine failed and caught fire. his was extinguished but the aircraft began to lose height. Darkie was called without result, the aircraft stalled into the Solent off Spithead, and the crew took to the Dingy. The crew were rescued by the Portsmouth ater? Co. Etc. All the crew were uninjured, and the aircraft sank in 5min.

(äter Co. may be a typeo ASR&CF - Air Sea Rescue & Communication Flight)

That was a very very lucky crew, At night in December.P/O Bedford pilot, Sgt. Howell 2nd pilot.



from January 42 Sgt.Howell was indeed Aircraft captain.

Jan 42. on Whitley V

5-1-42 Z9386
15-1-42 Z9234
31-1-42 Z9320

So I think we have a good case for this being Alfred Thomas Howell

The W.G Rawkins mentioned in the Action Gazette was an Observer with 77 Sqdn. Whitley V. Z6583 and lost on 4th April 1941.
see
Whitley V Z6583 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database]

 

Corrections to above

Z9129

Air81 entry confirmed correctly transcribed
Sergeant J J Oliver (RNZAF): injured; Whitley Z9129, 78 Squadron; aircraft crashed at... | The National Archives

Portsmouth ater? Co. - Portsmouth Water Company

Ross

 

So the ORB Air 27-660-36. Of 17-12-41 entry is incorrect and Howell flew in Z9129 when crashed.
Z9129 flew on the 7th,16th and finally on the 17th Dec 1941.

Z9219 being (well) damaged on the 7-8/11/41

Sergeant H Malkin (RCAF): injured; aircraft accident at Topcliffe aerodrome, north... | The National Archives
Aircraft accidents in Yorkshire.
Sgt Vincent Leigh Brown RAAF 400139, 102 squadron - RAFCommands Forums


Of-course Portsmouth ater? Co. - Portsmouth Water Company.
Sewage/sludge barge discharge at night. Visited the steamer Gargyloo at Southampton.

Any info on Sgt. THOM? still not seeing him in 76/78 squadron ORB,s.

 

Loss of L9576 in which Sgt. A.T Howell of 78 Sqdn. was under instruction at CU 1652 together with 8 other crew. see below.

Aircraft accidents in Yorkshire.

 

Thom J - International Bomber Command Centre

Known service, including DFM, on No. 49 and No. 97 Squadrons.

Without his service file, no idea if he was also on No. 78 Squadron.

Regards,

Dave

 

Well its a Thom.(James) But all the others were 76 (Culmess 2nd Pilot Halifax) or 78 Squadron, 2nd pilots, or pilots of Whitleys. Doing the Conversion course with 78 CF, or 1652UC for Halifax's to be pilot captains.

This J Thom, is from Hamptons, Manchesters, Lancaster's. and a little older at 28 in 42.

76 being a Halifax squadron for sometime, and 78 converting to Halifax's. I'll dig deeper in the 76 ORB records and see if he turns up.

There must have been something special, about this course for them to go to the trouble, of printing the names on the photograph.

Sgt Thom may not of been killed, and that is why he is not showing up in the searchable records.

Thanks anyway.

 

As per the ORB, Culmsee was lost on the night of 12/13-4-42. Aircraft R9487, code MP-X.

 

Indeed you are correct, and I offer no excuse, except my complete incompetents, having the ORB, Air 27/650-22 in question to hand. It is indeed rewarding that someone is paying attention to my ramblings on this thread.

As recompense.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/202448
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2035954/william-culmsee/

&

 

God Bless All Their Brave Young Souls R.I.P.

 

The six identified in the photo were all killed. The seventh member of the crew, P/O Robert Fairclough (112109), survived to become a POW.

 

Alas, this still leaves Sgt Thom unaccounted for. From the original photo of the six airmen.






However, I stumbled across this. Sgt. George Thom RCAF 76 Sqdn. R/60360 Flying as second pilot in May /June 42 with 76 Squadron. Jumped into France and POW 7th Nov 1942. see below.

Unfortunately used up my 100 down loads from National Archive for 30 days. and Canadian archive not giving me anything for R/60360?

Any of our Canadian chums have another way in, for a RCAF POW, or a George Thom. to confirm this Sgt. Thom is one of the same.

Thanks,


ex DT515.



Air Forces Database Search [RAFCommands]

RAF POW Query

 

Calgary Herald 12 April 1943



Calgary Herald 11 May 1943

Calgary Herald 9 April 1996

 

Thanks for that Alieneyes. Hard to confirm from the photos, but the age 21 is looking a better fit. Same jaunty angle of the cap and hair line. Just have to confirm if he was with 76 Sqdn.


his trials and tribulations and post war.

https://ibccdigitalarchive.omeka.net/files/original/1915/39130/E[Author]GTOwenHW570116.pdf

 

George Thom

Search the LAC using J87281. He appears in the Canada Gazette three times. His service file is not available online

 

Cheers, just added a letter he wrote in 1957 to Owen, to post No.15 Sure looks like our man.

 

Just to add Norman Gorfunkle Obs/Navigator was killed while baling out of DT 515. He was 22 years old.




Sergeant N GORFUNKLE (1260360), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve) [Royal Air Force WW2 Casualty ]
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2346505/norman-gorfunkle/
letter and story of Sgt G Thom bail out, escape,and ultimate capture.
letter from Free French resistance operative locally.

 

This may be one of the best post-war letters I've read.

https://ibccdigitalarchive.omeka.net/files/original/1915/39130/E[Author]GTOwenHW570116.pdf

A paragraph really stood out



I wonder who Thom spoke to? No idea when Mrs Smardon remarried but she did.

Montreal Star 27 April 1939



Marsdon seems to have bounced about a bit. No. 10 OTU, No. 76 Sqn (so I'm not hijacking the thread) and finally as a screened instructor at No. 22 OTU. He doesn't show up on any class picture while at 22 (his crewmates were all from the same Course 29)



Warrant Officer D M SMARDON (R/77069), Royal Canadian Air Force) [Royal Air Force WW2 Casualty ]



Regards,

Dave

 

Well done, I was looking for those letter names also and part of the reason I posted it up. It's all connected to this thread of the Six Pilots.

Dan Smarden you have. He did ditch on ops with 76 sqdn on the 30-1-1942 and was reportedly slightly shocked! and had 7 days leave on discharge from hospital. Lost in Wellington III DF736 10/12/1942 with 22 OTU. (aged 20)



Al Main (possibly Pilot (2ndPilot)? on Halifax,s There is a "Main" top Right in your 29 Course photo, Nav,s.??



Petch!


Sgt. Pilot Bill Gothercole.


I have been following G.Thom evasion through France, from 7-11-42, arrested in Switzerland, Back through France, South of France, and Captured in France on the Med coast, 4 miles from Spanish boarder. Transported to Paris in chains, by the Gestapo before being interned at Dulag Luft Stalag VIIIB. Needs a full post on it's own.