May Day, May Day situation no joy. Their coming to take me away...HA HA Straight to the Arkham Asylum for this bunny.
Barbara, I have been away from this thread thank you for your response. So he was on Guernsey till the end of the war or did he end up in the siege of Cherbourg? I have met many veterans and their children from Germany. Many Germans vacation in Marco Island FL during winter. Nothing beats chatting with a veteran poolside with a Becks Beer in hand. Thanks again for your response.
Barbara, I have been away from this thread thank you for your response. So he was on Guernsey till the end of the war or did he end up in the siege of Cherbourg? I have met many veterans and their children from Germany. Many Germans vacation in Marco Island FL during winter. Nothing beats chatting with a veteran poolside with a Becks Beer in hand. T hanks again for your response. Herroberst, 'm afraid I don't know so much about it. My father also mentioned Brest. He must have been there as well. A friend of his had fallen in love with a French girl there. This friend had been captured in Brest and taken to the United States for 2 years. After the war the two married. I have always been very fond of them. They were a special couple. Last February I met their daughter in Brittany/Bretagne. But she couldn't tell me much either. It was the same as everywhere else. They didn't talk so much about the war.Only that her father had told her that this war had ruined his life and that the only good thing was that he had met her mother. The two are dead by now as is my father, but whenever the two came to see us it was something very special . My father's friend had originally come from Brandenburg, which is now Polnish. His family had lost everything. What my father also told me: He had lost another friend. The SS had taken him away, because they had thought he had been asleep during his work. My father protested but his friend had been sent to the russian front on probation. My father had never seen him again. I think my father felt very much under pressure, especially after the failed assassination of Hitler.The SS were raging and were looking for people who were unreliable in the army. My father was scared that they would find out about his education. He had been educated in a Bavarian monastery in the years 1932 to 1938. So he had never been a member of the Hitler youth or any other organisation of the Nazis. - Well, I don't know whether he had been in Cherbourg or how long he had staid on Guernsey. He only told me that they had to retreat very quickly to Germany, as they had been chased by the Americans. In Germany they had been taken prisonner. When he heard that they were supposed to be taken to the States, he escaped and crossed the whole of Germany to get back home. He had lived in the Alps. After the war he had become a policeman. The Americans had been looking for men who had not been members of Nazi organisations. My father's family had been catholics and my grandparents had detested Hitler and had not allowed their children to go to the Nazis. My father had never admired Hitler.He told me that it had always given him the creep when he had to listen to one of Hitler's speeches. There was a street in Munich, where there were some Nazi flags hanging out of the windows, probably a Nazi house. And the people who were passing by had to greet the flags. So he always avoided this street. I have never heard my father say anything positive about the Hitler time. I think the war must have been a nightmare to him. He also said that he felt uneasy because he noticed that the French population were hostile towards the German soldiers. Maybe you could tell me more about Cherbourg. I tried to find out about Guernsey but it was very little I found. Most of the people had been evacuated. Was Cherbourg there to find out about the English? Barbara
Barbara, Thank you for your response. It is amazing some of the stories of fleeing that occured in the last few months of the war. An acquaintence of mine had run from the Russians with her mom and She hid till things settled down then they were trapped in East Germany and got out in a special compartment of a car going through a checkpoint. She deals in Antique toys in the US now. The Us forces held siege against the town of Cherbourg until the garrison surrendered after a brave fight. It was devastating to the defenders. Guernsey was occupied(I think) until the end of the war.
Barbara, Thank you for your response. It is amazing some of the stories of fleeing that occured in the last few months of the war. An acquaintence of mine had run from the Russians with her mom and She hid till things settled down then they were trapped in East Germany and got out in a special compartment of a car going through a checkpoint. She deals in Antique toys in the US now. The Us forces held siege against the town of Cherbourg until the garrison surrendered after a brave fight. It was devastating to the defenders. Guernsey was occupied(I think) until the end of the war. The Allies decided to bypass the Channel Islands for the priority of defeatring German forces on the mainland and it was not until 3 May 1945 they decided to rid the islands of German forces through Operation "Nestegg".By this time both occupied and occupier were in dire straits and were on the point of starving with the food intake at 1000 calories a day for each adult even though the IRC had been allowed to sail in monthly with food supplies from late 1944.Thus the Channels Islands which had been well fortressed as the Atlantic Wall played no part in the German defence of Europe and its occupiers,the No 319 Infantry Division was a manpower resource bottled up in the Channel Islands. The Channel Islands were not liberated until early on 9 May 1945 after radio contact had been established from 6 May and surrender negotiations had been established.Initially the Germans responded to the offer of surrender with the message the "the Commander in Chief, Channel Islands,receives orders only from his own government" not knowing that there was little probability of receiving higher orders. Finally,the German garrison on Guernsey signed the surrender to Brigadier Snow i/c Force 135, British forces at 0714 hrs ,9 May 1945 on the on the deck of HMS Bulldog which carried a landing party of 2 officers and 22 men the cease fire having been agreed for 0001hrs earlier in the the day.The surrender was a tedious affair with the German military authorities initially threatening at the late hour of the Third Reich to shell the RN vessels if they approached before the cease fire time. HNS Beagle, similarly manned, then conveyed Brigadier Snow to Jersey who conducted the surrender of the German garrison whilst at anchor at 1000 hrs. Snow is recorded as reprimanding Generalmajor Wolf (who refused initally to put in an appearance for the signing of the surrender).Wolf who was said to be "somewhat arrogant and aggressive" was almost reduced to tears after Snow's verbal displeasure and duely signed the act of surrender. Alderney was a different matter having no UK civilians living there but a large number of forced labourers had toiled to create a fortress which would never be tested.An early inspection in mid May revealed that Alderney was too dangerous to allow civlians back until the minefields were cleared.It took well over a year to clear up the island to allow civilians back.All the housing stock had been requistioned for the German defences but by July 1946 the population was almost up to 700 which was about half the prewar figure. I would think that there was little chance of the normal serving Wehrmacht member getting out of the Channel Islands after D Day and particular after US forces broke through to the western side of the Cherbourg Peninsula on 18 June 1944. It would be similarly difficult for any normal serving Wehrmacht member to get out of the Cherbourg fortress after D Day.The US First Army was given orders to take it as a prime objective on 18 June 1944 and by 26 June 1944 it fell after attack by air,naval support and landside ground artillery but was a ruined port which took until the end of August to turn it round for incoming supplies.There is a famous photograph of the German defenders trailing into captivity up the hill on the RN 13 out of Cherbourg past the large wall mounted iron sign plaque "Cherbourg". By September 1944,Cherbourg was the terminal for the PLUTO pipeline which kept the AEF on the move as far as Belgium.
I think former enemies should forgive and forget, there were atrocities commited on both sides, it's one of the consequences of total war. The Germans commited mass genocide, and we dropped two atomic weapons on Japan, wether you say it was neccessary or not, innocent people still died. In all fairness, it was a war between governments, in which the people were used as pawns. propaganda caused all the hatred, evan before most of these atrocities were commited or known about.
Some cannot and some will not forgive. But that is a decision for those who were there. It's not I feel something that can be dictated. Nor should anyone who was not there condemn any that were for not forgiving. Remeber, what they had to endure, they endured for all of us. "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier."
Of course they must forgive.The Germans are not bad people they leader was just a bit crazy thats all.The Bible teach us to forgive our enemys and that is right.The war end befor really long time.And the Germans just follow orders just as the British and US force
I think this is a very hard question to answer without being a veteran yourself. We have to be aware that different people had different experiences in the war that most other people cannot understand. But I do know that if I had a common enemy who killed all of my friends, I would not be too quick to forgive.
Should you forgive your enemies? YES! If they bring back to life the over 60 million that died. And reverse the effects of the death camps. If you have several pages if casualties, both dead and wounded. My Friends that paid for the freedom you enjoy today......Should you forgive? have you a right to forgive? You are 19 and the whole world of your life is to come, then struck down. All the hopes. all that could have been......swept away. A Golden life sacrificed for the freedom, and way of life that we enjoy. What bloody right have you to forgive? You never lost your life, you can still be fathers or mothers. Throughout your life, you will enjoy the pleasures, the moments of sheer joy, the heartaches, the mourning. all that life provides! While the young men lost everything that we hold dear. Who gave you the right? Sapper
That just about says it all Sapper. It echoes the views of a lot of veterans that I have had the honour to meet and get to know. Thanks to them all.
What bloody right have you to forgive? You never lost your life, you can still be fathers or mothers. Throughout your life, you will enjoy the pleasures, the moments of sheer joy, the heartaches, the mourning. all that life provides! While the young men lost everything that we hold dear. Who gave you the right? Sapper As a young woman of 27 in this country I can never forgive those who began the war. I can never forgive those who murdered and pillaged their way across europe. I can never forgive those who created so much suffering. But i can forgive the country. Sapper, after all that you sure and what you endured, i could never ask you to forgive. That would be wrong. You saw the worst of a nation and I can only thank you with every fibre of my being for going through it for us. When I see a War grave, or a memorial i always stop to think of the ones it commemorates, even though I did not know them. They should always be remembered, and if a man's name is still said, he is not truly dead. Sapper, thank you.
It is up to the individual. Some who were there might be able to forgive. Others not. As was commented on they were there. If two are in the same foxhole and one took it to forgive but the other wouldn't, then the decision is up to them and not to be dictated by outsiders, and I don't know how anyone can criticize the person for not wanting to forgive. Bulgarian Soldier says they must forgive - funny but he agreed with T34 in supporting Stalin's purges of his own people. Murdered his own people to keep them in line or so they would pose no threat. Both? Stalin was atheist he had no conscience no God or ultimate creator to worry about. If you don't have a conscience you don't have to worry about little things like forgiveness. With respect to the forgiveness part, maybe the larger portion of your ire should be aimed at those who caused these brave vets to be in the hellhole in the first place and not expect those who had to fight these megalomaniacs to forgive. These blokes - and women had to fight and see their comrades blown to bits, mutilated,scarred mentally and physically for six long years, no political correctness, no wishy washy, no shoulder to cry on , get the job done. Put the bleeding heart brigade in their position for a protracted amount of time and attitudes would change. Ten or twenty years down the line the politicians who sent them to war will be having dinner banquets and state visits while the poor sods who had to put their plans into action will be pushed to the back and paid a paltry praise but not too much as they don't want to dampen the spirit of reconciliation. With respect, while respecting the spirit in which contributors have meant it, the majority can't appreciate what these people went through. Sorry, no way. What experiences can modern day individuals put up as a comparison , only an idea of a comparison. Can they put themselves in that position. Some can only think they can. They have been there and suffered and ultimately it is their decision to forgive or not,they have earned the right to or not as the case may be and should be respected as such. If Sapper says his critics should take a running jump then he's well entitled to. After his experiences I think he lets people off light. He didn't ask to see his oppos shot blown to bits etc. So why should he have to forgive to be treated like some naughty schoolboy. The even bigger sickener is that vets have collection boxes for people to contribute at events,when the people who sent them to war,don't deem it pertinent to fund them to visit the graves of their comrades in foreign fields. These proud gents with their campaign medals who put it on the line, you put your contribution in the box and they call you "Sir". It should be the other way round. I feel humble in the presence of them blokes.
Each man heals in his own time, and so it is the indevidual to chose the time to set the demons of hate to rest. to my generation it would be a case of hating a nation which is not reasonable as it would be rare indeed for a entire nation to be guilty of crimes,
