Should i complain about this grave or just shut up

Discussion in 'War Grave Photographs' started by Deacs, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    There seems to be an assumption here that relatives were responsible for the paintwork.

    What if it wasn't a relative, but somebody who decided to practice their colouring-in skills on a whim?

    I'm of the opinion that it's entirely up to CWGC to decide what to do. After all they are responsible for maintaining a war grave to the standards which we all expect. Plenty of members here do sterling work reporting 'abandoned' graves ensuring that the commemoration of the fallen is perpetuated. I don't see this as different at all, but STAN50, if you'd seen it, you would have been just as entitled NOT to contact CWGC.

    If the paint is not only spoiling the look and cannot be removed, but also corrosive over time, this will be an added cost to an organisation which already has to deal with natural weathering and vandalism.

    Relatives of UK dead were given the option of their own memorial, or a CWGC stone in perpetuity - with the option of a personal tribute at the bottom. Surely if CWGC stone has been opted for, the desire for an individualistic headstone has been waived already.

    Michael contacted the CWGC; the rest is up to them. Shall we leave it at that?
     
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  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    I would tend to agree with that too.




    Is it my poor eyesight or is the headstone very faded & worn? I cant see the name on it.
    Are the headstones replaced or refurbished when the elements have rendered them unreadable?

    It must be your eyesight.

    Click it once, then twice more to bring it to its true definition.
     
  3. Roxy

    Roxy Senior Member

    When Michael posted this thread, he clearly thought that there would be a difference of opinion. Stan is clearly on one side of the fence whilst the majority of others appear to be on the other; hence the debate. I posted Arthur Field's detail in order that someone may have an idea of his descendents - I assume that it is they who are modifying/damaging (delete as appropriate) the headstone - and get their side of the story.

    Regardless, I agree with Diane; the response is now up to CWGC.

    Roxy
     
  4. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    D
    Michael contacted the CWGC; the rest is up to them. Shall we leave it at that?


    I think this leaves things as they should be, the care of the headstone is that of CWGC.
     
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello Stan
    A few examples issues raised with CWGC.


    D.F.Hatton :Royal Navy:Grave in ruins.CWGC working on a solution

    C.F.Turner Coldstream Guards:Grave in ruins name not Legible.CWGC attempting to get permission from local council to replace with CWGC Headstone

    L.Bailey:Royal Artillery: Name eroded.CWGC confirmed Headstone to be replaced within 18 months

    E.Story:Civilian: Name incorrect on CWGC spelt Storey :Age details incorrect.CWGC cannot act on this due to lack of family contact,however it has been noted.

    A.Rowley :RAF:Headstone in amongst a wood copse within sunken ground.Poor condition.CWGC aware plus church yard clearance is under way.

    There are many others that myself and other forum members have highlighted.

    So all best intentions to ensure the casualty is remembered in an honourable way.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    I still think that people advocating that it is OK to report something such as what this post is about - (we seem to have side tracked quoting repairs to stones that have faded and are cracked which most obviously needs someone to take the initiative and contact the CWGC), but this 'paint job' doesn't really fall into that category does it, be fair.

    I've agreed it's not the most attractive of things to see on someone's grave but sometimes these things are best left alone. It's almost certainly been done by a family member for whatever reason. Do you really want to go delving into someones private life just because you think it's your right to try and correct it?

    It is not a perfect World. Sometimes things are just best left alone.

    But please do carry on with your opinions if you want to but I'll call it a day now.
    We will have to agree to disagree I guess.

    ATB

    Stan.
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    hello Stan

    Thank you very much for your input.As you say we all have different opinions and it is good to share them.


    regards
    Clive
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    :) Ok STAN50 it's obvious you disagree: you're perfectly entitled to do so and it can't have been easy to post given the flow of the thread. It's all about a judgement call and these will inevitably vary between us.

    Really though, none of us know how this headstone has ended up in this state and Michael knowing CWGC's policy on reporting damage, weathering etc, made his own judgement call. Whether anyone disagrees or not with his decision we'd have to agree at least, that the provision of a headstone and care of the grave has been handed over to the CWGC. I am sure that CWGC will be sympathetic and considerate in any possible dealings arising from this matter. They are surely aware of their own caretaker role, and that the sensibilities of families are paramount.

    Everyone's had their say, put across their thoughts on the matter, and shown that we all care in our own way.
     
  9. WhiskeyGolf

    WhiskeyGolf Senior Member

    As I said earlier: 'Graveyard Police.'

    If that is what you wish to call us then so be it, but I think that may be a bit harsh.

    I too am one of the many that looks out for the care of CWGC headstones to make sure that if there is anything amiss, then the CWGC can look into it and if necessary have it rectified. This is done out of respect for those that have served and fought for what they believed in, and it is my belief that they should continue to be honoured - even in death with a headstone that is their lasting memorial.

    We have a CWGC headstone in our area that is unrecognisable to the soldier it was for, as the family have 'personalised' it so that the first name that is now seen is the wife's as it is in extremely large letters, with the husband's name in tiny letters underneath! To me this is no longer a CWGC headstone.
     
  10. WhiskeyGolf

    WhiskeyGolf Senior Member

    I took some photos of Polish war graves a couple of years back, chatting to the groundsman he reckons they hadnt had a single visitor or flower in his time, maybe 30 years.

    Pete

    That is really sad Pete. Even if the families have moved out of the area you would think that there would be a local organisation that put flowers on them at least once a year out of respect.
    WG
     
  11. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Thankyou everbody for your thoughts on this thread the for and against i think i have learned a hard lesson this weekend it has caused me alot of anxiety with my actions of what i have done if it was a good thing or what i have done is a bad thing unfortunately i can't turn the clock back so as Diane keeps saying please leave this now up to CWGC and lets see what they say
    regards Michael
     
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  12. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I took some photos of Polish war graves a couple of years back, chatting to the groundsman he reckons they hadnt had a single visitor or flower in his time, maybe 30 years.
    Pete

    Cold war going on perhaps?

    I remember reading Alan Moorhead's book on Gallipoli (first published 1956). He mentioned that the beautifully kept cemeteries and memorials on the peninsular had virtually no visitors from year to year. Different now.
     
  13. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    What is the problem with the plastic flowers? Surely you don't pin a real poppy on your lapel, I guess.

    One of my local churches (12th century) does not allow plastic flowers. They tend to fade in the weather and look dead grotty, however they let me through their door every third year (I'm elsewhere between times) wearing an artificial poppy. Dual standards here.
     
  14. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    CWGC Contact Form - General enquiry - Harrington (St Mary) Churchyard Extension - CEM 2044‏

    Dear Mr Deacon

    For your information, our attempts to clean the paint from the badge of the headstone commemorating A Field were unfortunately unsuccessful. A replacement headstone has been ordered however it can take up to 18 months for a headstone to be manufactured in our workshops in France and shipped to the United Kingdom for erection.
     
  15. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    CWGC Contact Form - General enquiry - Harrington (St Mary) Churchyard Extension - CEM 2044‏

    Dear Mr Deacon

    For your information, our attempts to clean the paint from the badge of the headstone commemorating A Field were unfortunately unsuccessful. A replacement headstone has been ordered however it can take up to 18 months for a headstone to be manufactured in our workshops in France and shipped to the United Kingdom for erection.

    Hello Deacs,

    You may recognise the latter part of the reply from the CWGC. The last sentence is more or less word for word the reply I received from the Commission earlier this year when I contacted them about the damaged headstone of WW1 casualty Pioneer Daniel Kilfoy in Whitehaven Cemetery. (You also photographed Pioneer Kilfoy's headstone).

    You will remember the Commission was a lot quicker that 18 months in replacing Pioneer Kilfoy's headstone. There was no fuss made about it. One day I was passing by and noticed the new headstone was in place. The Commission goes quietly and thoroughly carrying out its work. I would guess this headstone at Harrington will likely be replaced in less than 18 months.
     
  16. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

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