Sherman OP tanks on D-Day

Yes. Here is the whole page; unfortunately its an incomplete article called "431 Battery Guns on D Day" and I have been unable to trace where it formally appeared so I can get it all. It has been useful to me trying to piece together my Father's probable D-Day +1 and +2.
Ian

 

Yes great find, thanks for sharing Ian.

If you know the names of any of the vehicle commanders I would be interested to know that.

Regards, Michael

 

Ian,

I believe info derived from the "431 Battery Guns on D Day" article was used in the book "Gunners in Normandy". I don't have the book to hand - perhaps Sheldrake (the book's co-author) can provide the source for the entire article.

Regards
Arty

Edit. Just a reminder that these recollections are not 100% accurate (which is entirely understandable given the circumstances and passage of time). In this case, the author of the piece states: "During D+2 we assisted the 2 Devons to capture the Longues Battery”. The Devons were supposed to take the battey on 06June - this task was completed on 07June ie. D+1

 

The chapters on D Day were drafted by the late Will Townend. I think this document is a draft of an article in the RA Journal "Normandy 1944 Essex Yeomanry"

 

Sergeant Hawley is named as the No 1 on the 2nd disabled SP in the incident described on the attached page (Sexton D2). From another of TAR's articles I can see that the 1st SP was disabled (in a crater) on the beach rd and he refers to it as E-Sub but I dont know what that means
Ian

 

Sheldrake
Are you referring to TAR's “Normandy 1944 – the actions of a battery of self-propelled close support artillery from D-Day to D+7” in Vol 117/2? (1990 I think) I have that and its much broader. Its re-printed at the end of "One Man's War". Is there others? I think he also has a Market Garden article in the journal but I was not aware of any others
Ian

 

In the document attached to post #81, the author states ".... the director had to set up in a minefield, but fortunately nobody stood on a mine while passing the line to the guns". This was in the context of a troop of 4 MkII Sextons.

Not being very familiar with RA terminology I enquired what this was, and Arty on this forum obliged

"Back to the guns firing from the beach. ...... what I can add here is the very fact that the director was set up means there was some 'spare' time spent on getting organised. In a crash action the guns could be very roughly aligned using a hand held compass (Brit Mk III below). Fire orders could be passed verbally (ie. lots of shouting) and very quickly you're firing at the enemy.

The director was/is a very different piece of kit - basically a surveyors instrument mounted on a tripod.


I don't believe the drill for bringing the guns of the troop into parallel changed much over the years - it would have take some minutes to set up (especially if somebody was trying to kill you). The Gun Troops were indeed stuck on the beach for so long they eventually set up a gun position."

I thought Arty's explanation might be useful to re-post, and he provided this link for more detail on British WW2 Artillery methods

Subsequent to this::
By "passing the line" I presume that doesn't mean a cable but coordinates passed to the guns to get them aligned in parallel?

If they are using a Director is the GPO self selecting targets while awaiting FOO references? Some accounts talk of pre-planned targets upon landing the guns e.g. this one by Peter Mitchell acting GPO in 413 Battery "We then settled to a firing programme on pre planned targets but soon we were getting fire orders from our Forward Observation Officers (FOOs) up in front with the Infantry on targets more appropriate"

Ian

 

Passing line is the technical term for the procedure for aligning the guns so they all point in the right direction. Artillery dial sights have a scale in degrees (or mils) that show the angle between whatever sight is pointing to and the barrel of the gun. There is also a slipping scale so that having established that, say, 97 degrees on the sights is pointing, say, north the slipping scale can be set to show 0 degrees.

The director is basically another dial sight on a tripod - a surveying theodolite. It has a compass built in. If you set up the director and orient it with the compass you can then take a reading to the dial sights of the guns. The order to the guns is "Aiming point director" which results in the guns pointing the dial sight at the director. (and a runner dispatched to the director with pencil and paper). The GPO and assistant record the bearing to each gun and do a little bit of arithmatic to work out what angle the gun needs to set on their sights to point in the right direction - a zero line. The GPO then gives the order to " record as bearing." The guns then set the slipping scale to show this and all further orders will be given in terms of the zero line or a bearing to north. The gun No 1 then records this bearign by picking aiming points to aligning the gun by day and night.

The director needs to be at least 50 metres and ideally 100m from the nearest gun. Which is why it may have been set up in a mine field

This isnt particularly accurate as a compas is only accurate to 20 mils - one degree. A 20 mil line error results in 20 metres line error at 1 km and 200m at 10 km. More accurate survey using trig points or azimuth by altitude can bring the accuracy to arpiund 5 mils or less.

 

Thanks Sheldrake thats very helpful. Couple of follow-on questions if I may, and apologies if they are dumb:-
The context is a Troop of 4 MkII Sextons setting up on the beach at the border of Jig/King landing around H + 120 still under some fire from the German defensive positions that are not suppressed yet
1. Once this process was completed could the guns now shoot at map references radiod in by the FOOs or would the whole director process have to be repeated with each target?
2. How did the guys at the Director communicate with the guns after setup? As you said "runner dispatched to the director with pencil and paper" or would they get a telephone line organised?
3. How long do you think it would take from disembarking to get this calibration of the guns all done ready to go into action, assuming an orderly traverse of what was left of the beach by that time.
I am trying to get a timeline that I can be fairly confident about. My father was with the Hampshires A/C Company by now as part of the FOO
Thank you
Ian

 

Ian,

Don't get stuck on the setting up of the director too much, or you'll never get off the beach!

Once the director has been set up and the guns have been oriented in their zero line (and in parallel) the director gets put away. The guns are then ready to fire. The director doesn’t reappear until the next to move to the next gun position – which could be km’s away.

Regards
Arty

 

"Troops were sequentially lettered within a regiment and divided into two sections (left and right) each of two guns. Guns being called ‘sub-sections’ and sequentially lettered within the battery. In consequence guns were colloquially called ‘subs’."
Source: Royal Artillery Methods in World War 2

So, if I understand correctly, "E-sub" should be the 5th gun in 431 Bty, i.e. Sexton D1.

Michel

 

Thanks Michel for explaining that. I have just this minute found another article by TAR in the 1984 EY Journal and he names the No 1 of the gun that snagged in the crater on the Coast Rd and its Sgt Hall, who is indeed the No 1 on Gun D1!

He even mentions the brave Bombardier prodding around in the minefield with the (now) infamous Director
Ian

 

Ian,

Argh! It gets worse! That is, with bullets and shells whizzing past, Bombardier Davies using the legs of the director as a mine prod. You'd really want to be wearing brown corduroy pants!

Arty

 

Not sure about the pre planned targets. By and large Gun Position Officers are not allowed to poop off without direct orders - even at pre planned targets.
The first draft of Gunners in Normandy included this extract from SP Gun

This suggests that the fire was in support of the Hampshires at Hamel - which would be logical. They may have engaged some targets that had been preplanned as they may have been targets for the run in shoot - even if not fired.

 

Ian - I may have the missing pages somewhere. I will try and locate them. Stephen

 

Thanks Stephen. Page 1 ends "....It went into....." It referring to his "D" Troop and my Page 2 (of a 2 page doc) starts with "..director had to be setup" so there must be a page missing. Ian

 

Re 1. The short answer is yes. The troop is ready to respond to calls for fire. .
During the drills known as "Passing Line", from the director to the guns, aligning the gun's dial sights, individual Gun No 1's will record the angle to several aiming marks so he doen't need to look at the director to point the gun on any given bearing. There is even a set of drills for what is called the quick action where the GPO or another officer aligns the gun by compass to get the first round away.while they are setting up the director to align the rest of the guns.

Re 2 As mentioned in 1.above, Once the director has been used to pass line the guns are aligned using their individual aiming points, the director is not used again. Calls for fire go to the battery or troop command post if operating independently. The Command Post Officer calculates the range, bearing and any corrections to be applied. These are broadcast to the guns by a LOUD VOICE, telephone or call for runners. The Nos1 acknowledge orders
You can hear a version of this recorded in 1980 in my command post when I was a young CPO. These will give an idea of the kind of chaos engulfing a command post in action.




This is the sound of a Regimental fireplan, as might support a Battlegroup attack. I have been thinking about this bunch recently. All too many notes on social media about the funeral of someone from that particular band of brothers.

Re 3 a matter of minutes - more complicated when you find that the director has been set up in a minefield.

Sorry about the delay in replying. I dunno if the answers are still relevant..

 

Appreciate you coming back on these old queries. The answers are still relevant because the account I am working on is never finished, having to revisit sections as new info keeps coming to light. I have 1939 through to
13th June 1944 focusing on "D" Troop 431 Battery 147 Fd (Essex Yeomanry) but inevitably having to cover the entire Regiment and the units they are supporting for context. I am fortunate that Lt (at the time) Tony Richardson, GPO of "D" Troop left a lot of material to start me off, which is how this whole conversation began

The Artillery working practises and acronyms are specialised but I am getting there. In the 2nd recording above they are lining up a Regimental ("Mike") target I presume (100 rds HE per gun at 9 targets) and by the time it ends (13 mins) they havent fired and being 1980 I expect the comms & methods are more efficient. With procedures as they were at the start of the NWE campaign how long do you think it would take, having established the line, to fire on a target (GridRef) radio'd through from an FOO for a Troop, Battery, Regiment target including all the necessary authorisations?
Ian

 

Ian,

The second recording is of a command post exercise. This involves carrying out all the drills except actually moving and firing. Its all pretend and ignores a lot of reality in order to get as much practice in team work between the OPs, RHQ/FDC CPs and the guns. It is all speeded up and ignores a lot of logistic reality.,e.g how long it takes to prepare 100 rounds per gun. Hence the note of scepticism in the CPOs voice.at that point. . (Each round weighs 25 (25 pounder) - 37lb (105mm L115 or L15) - 80-100lb (5.5 inch, 155mm). They are delivered in boxes of two in cylindrical cardboard containers (L118./L15) or on pallets 155mm. Fuses might need to be unboxed, fitted and set, That was normal for medium artillery and for any non standard fuzes or settings - e.g. Time or Delay. For each gun this amounts to over a ton of ammunition and the packaging and boxes from 100 rounds.

The Army did publish some "target times in Training Memoranda in 1941 but then withdrew them. Wargamers love this sort of stuff, but it very much depends on the circumstances. The fastest is via a "crash action".which means there is a call for fire as the guns are driving along a road.
.
Read George Blackburn's Guns of Normandy and Guns of War, for the Gun end experience, including the competative fun . of a crash action...

 

Hi Ian,
Is there anywhere you can get copies of this book?
Thanks
Andy