Service Records - King's Regiment (Liverpool) - Gibraltar

Hi,

I'm hoping a kind soul will help me understand and make sense of my grandad's service records.

My grandad joined The King's Regiment (Liverpool) on the 9th December 1936 when he was 19.

He was posted to Gibraltar on the 2nd March 1938 and remained there until the 25th October 1941.

Within my grandad's service records it says:

17/12/40 - 2 King's Regiment - Transferred to the Garrison Employment Coy, Crib, w.e.f 16/12/40. Struck off the strength accordingly.

04/05/41 - G.E. Coy - Transferred to 2nd Bn. The King's Regiment w.e.f 26/04/41. Struck off strength accordingly.

24/10/41 - 2 King's - Embarked at Gibraltar (approximately 3 illegible words) 1941. Struck off the strength accordingly.

The next entry is completely illegible.

From what I've transcribed here, can anyone offer any insight?

I've tried to Google "Garrison Employment Coy, Crib" but I can't seem to make any sense of it.

Many thanks in advance

 

Rather than Crib is it not Gib ?

Best to post photos of the records so we can see them.

 

Apologies. I think it must be Gib. I'll add an image now

 

Is the very bottom entry reading, "Posted to No 1 WOJS (possibly WOTS)?

 

There are a few post-war clues to what the Garrison Employment Company Gibraltar did via an online search, it provided cooks, some NCOs etc for the Garrison HQ. Gibraltar was very crowded at the time, a whole infantry brigade, the sappers digging tunnels, let alone the RAF and RN.

No exact matches for WOJS / WOTS on the site I use for abbreviations (see below). Could it be Officer Training School, even Warrant Officer Training School? It does appear to have an illegible location name afterwards.

See: WW2 Abbreviations and Acronyms | Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers

 

First off, thanks to Owen, John and David for your replies.

Secondly, apologies for my delay in replying. It's been an unexpectedly chaotic day here.

The bottom entry appears to read, "Posted to No? (I honestly can't read the number, but I think it could be 1 or 4. Something with a straight-up stroke) WOTS Daib?? (the D word, if it is a D is very difficult to read)."
The next line which isn't in the image is wrote by the same person, I would say. It appears to say Dorking.

I'll add another image.

Absolutely any insight at all would be smashing.

I'm beyond grateful to have my grandad's service records. I feel frustrated not being able to read or understand them.

If there's anything I can do my end, please just ask.

Is there any particular part of the records that would be useful for you to see?

 

This is the bottom half of the same page.

 

There appears to have been a longstanding RASC presence @ Dorking from an online search.

See Post 14: War Diary - No.1 RASC Mobilisation Centre

Somewhere in: War Diary - 50 Coy RASC (General Transport) - DUKW Is a reference to collecting vehicles from V.R.D. @ Dorking. A thread id'd this as: Vehicle Reserve Depot

A few others id'd in an online search: "RASC" + "dorking" site:ww2talk.com

11/11/1942 To 20 / 30 Battalion Kings Rgmt It will be 30th, a 'holding' and Home Defence unit. See: List of battalions of the King's Regiment (Liverpool) - Wikipedia

25/01/1943 Transfer to 9 Training Bn. RASC as a Driver with 'C' Company (Coy). A thread indicates it did driver training.

06/03/1943 Posted RASC Company 172 Infantry Brigade Note:

From: 172nd (2/1st South Lancashire) Brigade - Wikipedia

06/11/1943 Acting Lance Corporal and made substantive same day

 

David, that's superb! Thanks so much.

In my grandad's records are driving certificates. When he joined the army at age 19, he had no driving experience. He learnt to drive on Gibraltar, I believe.

In 1939, while on Gibraltar, my grandad received a 2nd class certificate of education.

While in France in 44, I believe he worked as a butcher and cook. I don't think he had to slaughter the animals, but I believe he had to do everything else to turn the animals into meals.

These details seem to fit with what you've shared.

The only ill health my grandad had as a soldier was tonsillitis that resulted in a tonsillectomy in 1942, and his eyesight deteriorated. He didn't need glasses when he joined, but he wore them full-time by the time he left. I know he susuffered from headaches, pain behind his ears, and eye strain. I thought that might relate to the deterioration of his sight.

David, do you know how common or not it was for a soldier to see a psychiatrist?

 

David, I've been following the links you provided and reading with fascination.

What I've just read about the above King's Regiment 30th has sparked a memory.

I remember being told that my grandad moved around the country quite a lot and was involved in disbanding various units that were no longer needed. I've just read that the 30th disbanded in March 43 after my grandad was with them in November 42. I don't know how accurate what I was told was, but maybe there's something to that story..?

 

Rowan Tree,

Some points, not in chronological order or importance.

I expect you have a record sheet on his movements, notably going to Normandy after D-Day 6/6/1944. I had been wondering what happened to him and his unit after their deception work (I will return to that).

It appears, thanks Tom O'Brien's work (he has been a great help on my research project), that RASC Company 172 Infantry Brigade lived! See: War Diary - 172 Coy R.A.S.C. (3 Br Inf Div) Note now part of the 3 / 3rd Infantry Division in France. See: 3rd (UK) Division - Wikipedia See Post 1 & 179 in: Sword Beach.

Tom also points out there is a sub-section for the RASC: RASC With x427 threads!

Plus they appear in an Order of Battle (OOB) for the 9th Infantry Brigade in Post 1 in: 9th British Infantry Brigade WW2 - War Diary and Detective Work They were part of the 3rd Division. See a slim Wiki: 9th Infantry Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia and 9th British Infantry Brigade During World War 2 (not glanced at)

You asked:

Medical matters I rarely dip into. All I know is that the WW1 experience led huge changes to the medical units behind the lines, so at British General Hospitals most likely did have them aka "shrinks". I have seen references to specialist hospitals later in WW2, some dealt with returning POWs, notably those who had been held by the Japanese.

A very long time ago I read: Dixon, Norman F. (1976). On the psychology of military incompetence. Good book, probably not what you seek!

The Army was re-organising all the time, in all aspects. UNits like the 30th Kings Rgmt served a purpose and then were deemed surplus. The shortage of manpower become acute by 1943, first in the Italian campaign and the after D-Day, notably for infantry, and who units were disbanded, given a new purpose and broken up in emergencies.

I have previously come across another 30th Battalion Green Howards, who were deployed after VE-Day in French Algeria, with some or all guarding a RAF base: See: 30th Green Howards: a small mystery and in the book 'Story of the Green Howards' by Synge, Capt. W.A.T.; published in 1952.

The unit had been in North Africa since 25/8/1943, as part of the 42nd Infantry Brigade, which had five other 30th battalions. See: 42nd Infantry Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia Note they each often played a brigade in deception operations.The Kings Rgmt is not one.

Originally formed in the UK for internal security duties on lines of communication under AFHQ. The unit had a full complement of personnel, 80% of which were below Category "A"; they armed only with personal weapons and had a skeleton allotment of transport. From: https://www.alternatewars.com/Nafziger/Pt_I_1939-1940/939bxie.pdf

I expect the deception role was mainly electronic, so generating radio traffic, but backed by a physical presence - although Axis air recce overflights reduced to very few by D-Day. A completely separate topic or theme!

 

David, you're a star. Thank you again for all this fascinating and valuable information. I feel you've really opened up my grandad's records and given me new routes to investigate and explore.

With regards to a record sheet on his movements. I've got him in "France, Belgium & Holland" on the following dates: 11/06/44 - 23/12/44.
In another part of the records I found the following: "He served at Gibraltar for 4 years and was then transferred to the R.A.S.C. and mustered as a driver i/c. He went to Normandy on D+5 day, and served with the B.L.A. until returning to the U.K. in December, 44."

I think he got into trouble on the 3rd November 44. I'll add a screenshot below.

 

Details from 3rd November 44:

 

One wonders if this relates to meeting French civilians? Or a deliberate action to get back to the UK to see his family?

 

I honestly don't know. I can tell you that my grandad married in March 42. He was really missing my nana. My eldest uncle was born 9 months after he got home at the end of December 44, which made me smile.

I'm not sure I'm reading everything correctly. I'll transcribe below. There are 2 words that I can't make out and I'm not sure if I've got everything else correct. If I've got something wrong, please do correct me:

"W.Q.A.S. An act prejudiced to good orders & military discipline, in that he, on 3 Nov 44 did without permission visit a café dining working house (2) Co???ing Part I. ??ers No125 para 196 dated 29 Oct 44 in that he did smoke inside a billet which contained straw."

Reading that my grandad smoked were he shouldn't isn't really a surprise. Smoking killed him, but not in the way you think (an oxygen tank and fire was involved).

 

WQAS is WOAS Whilst On Active Service

2) Orders