Service Record deciphering question.

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by zola1, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. sjw8

    sjw8 Well-Known Member

    Derrick
    Re the bit in bold, the problem with trying to find any particular individual's movements from War Diaries is that you could land up going down many unsuccessful paths.

    On a troopship there would have been a mixture of individual reinforcements, small drafts of personnel posted to allocated units, and whole units replacing battle fatigued units, particularly if a unit had been heavily hit in losses but 364 Wks Section appear to have been more of a "follow up" unit carrying out repairs. I note you have the War Diary for March 1944 - is there an entry on or about 1 March 1944 recording his arrival?

    Here's an example from one of my dad's War Diaries recording his (unnamed) transfer to another unit -
    16/08/40 - "1 Sgt, 1 L/Cpl, 7 Sprs, 2 Dvrs of this unit exchanged with personnel of 256 Fd Coy RE & 258 Fd Pk Coy RE." along with the following comment - "Exchange of personnel from ex BEF units with non BEF units"). (dad being one of the "7 Sprs" exchanged.)
    Steve
     
  2. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Hi Steve,

    Yes, since I started researching back 2005, I’ve hit many brick a wall with leads going nowhere. I’m compiling a dossier around the time period Christmas 43 to April 44 & focusing on getting as much accurate information as possible.
    The WD’s do not mention dad at all for the entries for March 44...I’m really pleased to hear you found an exact reference to your dads posting.. what a find .! ...there is a wealth of information on the work carried out and various officers postings, fascinating facts. I’ve kind of built up the hope of more information of the guys in the section.. but it’s not really there .. the odd mention of troops postings in/ out but not when dad when arrived... I haven’t got 45’ WD when he left from Mestre me Venice (job for another day ).
    I am genuinely pleased that there is actually a WD in the first place.. so onwards with the research.
    I’ve spent sometime in Italy over the years and always get that overwhelming feeling of respect and gratitude for the brave guys who were there, just getting on with it .

    Regards
    Derrick
     
  3. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Derrick,
    You may have done it but have you tried the IWM (not the easiest to search on line). In my research on my Dad I have turned up missing facts in the Private Papers section and also found recordings in the Sound section which also filled in gaps.

    Tim
     
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  4. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Thanks Tim, I’ve not been on - line with IWM.. What did you use as a search term ?

    My dad was in 364 Works Section RE .

    I’ll check it out.

    Regards

    Derrick
     
  5. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    In my experience you sometimes you have to think very laterally. Not be always be specific and use the filters. Then comb through perhaps 100s of results. The synopsis of what's contained in the box/papers is quite good. I'm sure there will be a forum member who is better at this than me. Be warned it's taken me years on and off and a lot of luck.

    Tim
     
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  6. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Any thoughts on a deciphering the entry at the base of the for the 25th January 44 to me it reads LIB47(NA19)
    Could this be a convoy reference ?...Libya possibly ?



    I've dug out all the forms i received for dads service and this is the only entry i can find for the vital area i'm researching early 44!



    Also on the other scan, i've highlighted in yellow...shows what looks like a "stamped " entry ..quite faint but i read it as O.C "B" Coy No2 (POSTING) DEPOT R.E

    So it appears that dad was still in the 810 Construction Coy on the date ?


    Snapshot for Serial ENTRY RESEARCH BASE OF PAGE.JPG snip highlighted area reads O.C   B Coy  No 2 (POSTING) Depot Bn R.E.JPG

    Derrick

     
  7. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Hi Hutt,

    I read through the WD you kindly posted thank you ..the entry on 27th Nov 43 shows a Convoy KMF 26 arriving....this is of great interest to me as my Dad left Liverpool on the 12th Dec 43 , From the Arnold Hague website there was a Troopship called the Port Jackson that departed Liverpool on that date it docked briefly at Belfast Lough Dec 14th....then departed as part of KMF 27 (Clyde -Port Said North Africa)...
    Now if i can find the December 43 WD WO169-13713 and it shows KMF 27 with the O.R entries as per the Nov 43 entry ..this could be the vital information that i've been looking for !
    K.M.F. 26 Convoy arrives 27th Nov 43.JPG

    Hope to confirm this ,

    Many thanks

    Derrick
     
  8. sjw8

    sjw8 Well-Known Member

    Derrick
    Re you post#26, you dad ceased to be part of 810 Construction Coy on 26/11/43 when he was posted to 2 (P) DBRE pending being allocated to serial RGZGY. He is, in effect, "in limbo" between Units. When he arrives in North Africa, again he is "in limbo" whilst at 1 G.R.T.D. / R.E.T.D. until he is posted to 364 Works Section on 01/03/44.

    I cannot make out the entry LIB47(NA19) at present but will look at later.
    Steve W

    14.43 p.m - Edited to add -
    Re LIB47(NA19), having looked at my dad's records, I think this reads L17487 (NA19) as there are two similar entries on my dad's record -
    L15305 (19NA) - 15.11.43
    L17677 (19H) - 6.1.44
    The first one was recorded whilst in transit from Sicily back to UK; the latter when he was back on home soil. I am still unable to ascertain the background to these codes as I am unable to tie these dates to either his other records or to War Diary entries. I am wondering if these relate to "Nominal Roll" list of personnel?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
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  9. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Steve,
    I've had another look at it now you posted what you've seen previously & I think it could read L17847 (NA19) - 25.1.44 Still a deciphering required .. What do you mean by "Nominal Roll" list of personnel ?

    Derrick
    image.png
     
  10. sjw8

    sjw8 Well-Known Member

    Sorry I transposed the numbers (fat finger syndrome).

    By "Nominal Roll" I mean a list of a Unit's personnel as at a particular date. They can be used for a variety of purposes - to help compile the weekly return to higher formations, by the "Q" staff for ration indents, by Battalion / Company office to compile passenger lists etc.

    As stated, after looking at my dad's records e.g. the entry dated 15.11.43 is during a time when he was on board ship. A list of personnel would have been provided and submitted to Movement Control before embarkation (in dad's case 09.11.43) and it would take time for copies to be sent back to UK, and recorded, by R.E. Records Office.
    In your dad's case he arrived in North Africa on Xmas Day 1944 and posted to 1 G.R.T.D; as the entry is dated 24.1.44 this is after Xmas / New Year leave periods and thus there may have been a delay in collating the new reinforcements at the Depot, sending these back to UK for recording the details on his R.E.records?
     
  11. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Thank you Steve,I’m beginning to get a better understanding of what was going on.
    So what your saying is it’s possible.. ( more than likely) that Dad was still in North Africa on the 24th January 44?, in the GRTD.. I’ll read right through the copies of the WD’s you posted later, to try and find the location in NA where my Dad was .

    I’ve made a note to try and get hold of the Dec 43 copy from Kew.

    Really interesting developments, thank you .


    Derrick
     

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