Service record acronym - W.T.P.P

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Pete Keane, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    What is needed when we get Q & R documents, discharge sheets etc, is a copy of Staff Duties in the Field, All of the official niggling abbreviations will be in this publication. Here shown a copy of the 1949 edition: Many, myself included looked at staff wallahs as an annoyance that made my life more difficult, as you become more experienced you realise that without them you cannot do the job. Years later I was the Int office manager on a tour. 19 or more hours a day for six months. Hellfire, never again would I
    look upon Staff Duties as the easy option. The Jocks with a sense of humour- Hullo Wully how come yer breeks have got a shiny ass? They were convinced I sat down all day drinking coffee and smoking the local tobacco - Erinmore!

    4052b.jpg

    A copy of King's Regulations for the Army 1940 would throw a lot of light on the subject.
     
  2. Skybot

    Skybot Junior Member

    Thanks Owen, and Wills,
    Peter
     
  3. 2EastYorks

    2EastYorks Senior Member

    Hi Peter

    To resurrect this thread, and in particular to your query re the abbreviation W.T.P.P. - this appears on my Grandad's service records too. After much searching and assistance on here, although not definitive, I think it stands for 'Welfare Time Private & Personal' or similar.

    In my Grandad's case, he was from Sheffield and he was granted WTPP Leave the day after Sheffield was heavily bombed.

    See here at post 6: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/royal-artillery/28670-161st-heavy-aa-reg.html

    and here: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/unit-documents/33229-service-record-acronym-w-t-p-p.html

    Hope this is of some use.
     
  4. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Granted WTPP this usually precedes a leave, after much searching, Hansard 1939 award of Travel Warrants- I believe the answer lies here, that all soldiers should be allocated two free travel permits per year. The recording in records is I believe - With Travel Permit Provided.

    Hansard - always a source of amusement. 'All officers may travel first class on trains, unless you are a Home Guard officer where regulations say you have to travel third class. All adjutants of Home Guard units are taken on regular army strength, even if that officer has only held the post for a week. if the Adjutant and his Commanding officer drive to the station. we have a situation where the Adjutant can travel by train first class and his CO third class!'
     
  5. steviebyday

    steviebyday Junior Member

    just recieved my fathers war records, he served in the 86 field reg RA 342 Battery, the writing is a bit dodgy to say the least but most of it can be read, stuck on a few though anyone understand what GRANTED W T P P 6 (then it looks like)pir dium HERINGHAM. S/L/R then the date 27. 8. 42. also 2E21/1361/44 EMBARKED(then something iledgible) 23089/2817 then the date 2. 6. 44. sorry i cannot scan these, but the writing is so bad i don't think it would make an differance thanks steve
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    sorry i cannot scan these
    have you got a digital camera or mobile phone to take a photo of the records ?
    I'd help the members if you could post a photo.
     
  7. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    just recieved my fathers war records, he served in the 86 field reg RA 342 Battery... 2E21/1361/44 EMBARKED(then something iledgible) 23089/2817 then the date 2. 6. 44... steve

    Hello Steve,

    I believe I can help you with some of the foregoing:

    1) The 86th Field Regiment, RA, were attached to 50th (Northumbrian) Division for the D-Day landings on Gold Beach and for a shortwhile thereafter;

    2) "2E21/1361/44" - this is a reference to the orders under which your father embarked - you won't be able to get any further with this; and

    3) "EMBARKED... 23089/2817... 2. 6. 44" - this refers to his unit and the craft on which it/he embarked for Normandy for the D-Day landings, namely, 86th Field Regiment, RA and LSTII 2817. Did you transpose the 23089 - should it read 23098?

    Please see the link to the Gold Beach landing tables for the 151st Infantry Brigade:

    D-Day : Normandy 1944 - GOLD BEACH : British Troops

    You will find two entries about half way down for H+6, as follows:

    23098/2817 LST II - 86 Fd Regt (SP) RA...

    -one for the Tank Deck and one for the Main Deck.

    NB. The 151st Infantry Brigade was in the second wave, following up the 69th Infantry Brigade. This was a reversal of the Sicily landings (Op Husky), in which the 151st Infantry Brigade landed first at Avola.

    In addition, I found this about 341 Bty on D-Day and NW Europe which you may find interesting, assuming you haven't seen it before:

    Battery diary, 341 Battery, 86th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery, 1944 to 1946; compiled by Lt Sidney Beck

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  8. steviebyday

    steviebyday Junior Member

    thanks for very helpful information, yes it does read 23698. mistake on my part. much appreciated. steve..............
     
  9. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    thanks for very helpful information, yes it does read 23698. mistake on my part. much appreciated. steve..............

    If I can be of any further assistance please let me know!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  10. steviebyday

    steviebyday Junior Member

    you have been very helpful, seems he did his training with 25th med heavy training reg, in a place called MARSKE which i think is near redcar in yorkshire, he always said he drove a sherman tank, appointed driver 1/c 2/6/42. no mention of this on his record though. steve
     
  11. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    WTPP (with travel permit provided) Leave at SLR per day (per diem) - this is standard local rate (ration allowance) as he is not being fed by his unit, he has to provide for himself and is paid at the local rate where he is on leave.
     
  12. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    you have been very helpful, seems he did his training with 25th med heavy training reg, in a place called MARSKE which i think is near redcar in yorkshire, he always said he drove a sherman tank, appointed driver 1/c 2/6/42. no mention of this on his record though. steve

    Sherman Tanks of 86th Field Regiment, RA - 'Z', X' and 'H'.

    [​IMG]


    'GD' from D Troop 342 Battery

    [​IMG]

    RD from 'D' Troop 342 Battery

    [​IMG]

    From the Axis History Forum.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  13. steviebyday

    steviebyday Junior Member

    thanks wills that the last thing i would have though those letters meant. steve
     
  14. steviebyday

    steviebyday Junior Member

    thanks again steve mac, fantastic photos,once again you have been very helpful. steve
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Steve

    Not sure on your Dads date so here are the refs for all his regiments war diaries covering WW2:

    WO 166/1509 ROYAL ARTILLERY: FIELD REGIMENTS: 86 Field Regiment. 1939 Sept.- 1941 Dec.
    WO 166/7002 ROYAL ARTILLERY: FIELD REGIMENTS: 86 Regiment. 1942 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 166/11280 86 Field Regiment 1943 Jan.-Dec.
    WO 171/981 86 Regiment 1944 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 171/2034 86 Field Regiment 1944 June- Dec.
    WO 171/4828 86 Regiment 1945 Jan., Apr.- Dec.
    WO 171/4829 86 Regiment Light Aid Detachment (LAD) 1945 Jan.- May
    WO 171/9070 86 Regiment 1946 Jan.- Apr.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  16. bLACKCOUNTRY MON

    bLACKCOUNTRY MON Active Member

    I am researching a man who was with the 2nd/7th Royal Warwickshire Regiment in Londonderry, Northern Ireland in September 1940 when he was granted W.T.P.P. Any help with what W.T.P.P means will be appreciated.
     
  17. DianeE

    DianeE Member

    WTTP also appears on my fathers record. It may mean Welfare Time Private and Personal. Possibly there was a family emergency.

    I picked this up from a previous post. Not sure when though.

    Diane
     
  18. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Posted by Wills here
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/28213-service-record-acronym-wtpp/?hl=wtpp

    Granted WTPP this usually precedes a leave, after much searching, Hansard 1939 award of Travel Warrants- I believe the answer lies here, that all soldiers should be allocated two free travel permits per year. The recording in records is I believe - With Travel Permit Provided.

    Hansard - always a source of amusement. 'All officers may travel first class on trains, unless you are a Home Guard officer where regulations say you have to travel third class. All adjutants of Home Guard units are taken on regular army strength, even if that officer has only held the post for a week. if the Adjutant and his Commanding officer drive to the station. we have a situation where the Adjutant can travel by train first class and his CO third class!'
     
  19. DianeE

    DianeE Member

    That does make sense.
    Unfortunately my Dad's record has entries missing after the WTTP entry on 17/4/41. The next entry is Jan 1942. There is no mention of leave. He enlisted in Oct 1940 and being granted leave in Apr 41 seems unlikely unless there was some family emergency. I have the war diary for the battery he was with and they were in Orkney at the time.
    Perhaps we will never have a difinitive answer
     
  20. bLACKCOUNTRY MON

    bLACKCOUNTRY MON Active Member

    I am researching a man who was with the 2nd/7th Royal Warwicks in Londonderry in 1940 when he was "awarded WTPP" . Does anyone know what WTPP stands for? Any help will be appreciated.
     

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