Service Number ?

Hi, I've had a request from a lady I've been trying to help but I'm not very clued up on service numbers.
The soldier in question is Albert Vernon.
:Our dad was Harry's eldest son Albert, we know he joined the army as a boy and may have left at some time then maybe joined up again. We know he was a Sergeant in the South Staffordshire Regt in Palestine in 1939 and was in Egypt in 1940 when he met our mum.

Ted's problem was that when he approached the South Staffs Museum and gave my dads army number (4266840) they said it wasn't a South Staffs Number.

I want to apply to Glasgow for my dads records but need a correct army number!

I have my dads medals from WW2 but the only army number he had written down was the 4266840.

Do you have any idea on how we can proceed."
Many thanks in advance.

 

He may have joined a different unit initially and got the number 4266840 (a Royal Northumberland Fusiliers number) and then transferred or as mentioned possibly left and rejoined into the South Staffs

 

If you are looking to apply for his service records you dont need a service number

The forms state Service Number OR Date of Birth

TD


Surname - MANDATORY Forenames (in Full) - MANDATORY
Rank Held on Discharge *Service Number
Regt/Corps on Discharge/Death *Date of Birth Year of Discharge
* SERVICE NUMBER AND/OR DATE OF BIRTH MUST BE INCLUDED


Request records of deceased service personnel

 

Just to add for his records I think they can also give his date of birth instead of his service number (other will clarify) if they are confident of his DOB it may be best they give that and also give a note of his service number but mention they aren't as sure of that

Was just about to post post as TD did

 

Use DoB only was my normal reply but lately I've changed my usual reply to use DoB only if you are certain of his age on entry to service.

In this case are you sure he was a boy entrant or could he have lied about age and given a false dob?

Now my advice is give known dob and all numbers you have and state all details correct to best of your knowledge.

Ross

 

Excellent, thank you so much I will pass this on. This lady is 70 years old on a new journey of discovery from The Great War to WW2 and it's been very interesting, I will of course give this group the credit and thanks again.

 

Can you provide his date of birth ?/

TD

Did he marry and what year and to whom?

 

Albert Henry Vernon dob 15th September 1915.

 

Son of Harry Arthur Vernon born in Brighton and saw action in the Boer War, France/Flanders kia March 1918. Also saw action in 1915 on route to France and his service records have placed him in Hampshire I believe were 9mths later a child was born. Ancestry DNA seems a wonderful thing in this case , when restrictions are lifted this lady will be meeting a cousin she never knew existed.

 

His wife Patricia Joan Topping.

 

Otto

Looking at this family tree
Harry Arthur Vernon
1884–1918
BIRTH OCTOBER 1884 • Brighton, Sussex, England
DEATH 22 MAR 1918 • France and Flanders

It shows one of his children was
Albert Henry Vernon
1912–1999
BIRTH 15 SEP 1912 • North Bierley, Yorkshire West Riding
DEATH 17 JAN 1999 • North east Hampshire, Hampshire, England

But this shows born 15 Sep 1912, you previously mentioned his birth as 15 Sep 1915

Might be worth checking before filling in the forms

TD

 

Sorry my typing error, I've used the same information as you.
The cousin this lady is going to meet had no idea who her father was until Ancestry DNA and I'm so happy to have helped fill in some of the blanks. The story behind it and the family military history has fascinated me , she tells me, "Thank you so much for finding this information. My dad was very much an army man. After the war he couldn’t settle in civilian life and joined up again in the parachute regiment in charge of 3 para band. Think he maybe spent his army life in 3 regiments but remembered his first number. At least I now have a starting point on finding out about his service so thanks again .
Rosemary.
With that I appreciate your help on this, I did try myself but was stuck.

 

The service you describe would fit with him being in the 1st Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment

 

I will pass this on, thank you.

 

I think 1912 is his year of birth as he probably enlisted in Feb 1929.

I've been recording enlistment dates (I'm building a research database for the BMF) and the closest I have for Vernon are:

4266825 Prime enlisted 31st Jan 1929
4266846 Purvis enlisted 5th Bn RNF 12th Feb 1929
4266861 Marshall enlisted 19th Feb 1929

If he left and rejoined he would get a new number. If he transferred to another regiment he kept his number. His medal for Palestine will have his details stamped around the rim.

 

No he would retain his original number post 1920. There are exceptions but the army number stayed with them unless a new numbering system came in . Many men were recalled on the outbreak of war using their old pre war/peacetime number.

Kyle

 

Kings Regs say "An ex-soldier re-enlisting will resume the army number which he previously bore" - I think its only if you enlisted without making them aware you weren't an ex-soldier you'd get a new one - the only other official instances I've seen of a new Army Number was men of the Militia who got a number in the Militia range but in some instances then got a new number when they joined a unit, but even this doesn't seem universal but there must be some logic.

 

Married in Jordan

General Register Office
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Banns And Marriages
First name(s) Albert H
Last name Vernon
Sex Male
Marriage year 1941-45
Albert H Vernon married one of these people
Patricia J Topping
Marriage place Amman
Place type Place
Country Jordan
Type Consular/Overseas
Source Gro Consular Marriages (1849-1965)
Records year range 1941-1945
Archive reference MCON
Volume 39
Page 207
Line number 47

 

Wow yes that’s my mum and dad. They actually got married in Jerusalem in 1940 because my mum, who was a Queen Alexandra Schoolteacher, was evacuated from Cairo with all the army schoolchildren in army lorries and they ended up in Jerusalem. They got married there then my mum got sent down to Durban. My eldest brother Peter was born in South Africa. By 1945 they were back in TransJordan but all my mums paperwork including her passport was lost in transit. Although already married they had to marry again in Amman so my mum could get my brother back to England! They didn’t get back to UK till late ‘46. My mum was a lot more adventurous than me!

 

Thank you all for your help, really appreciate it.