Good afternoon all. New member here, so nice to meet everyone. I am on the hunt for any information on a Clyde Frederick Adams Clothier who flew with 51 Squadron and latter 101 Squadron out of Ludford Magna. I am currently in possession of his flying helmet, goggle, and oxygen mask set which I purchased from an online store in 2014. It was sold with some provenance and minimal information (name, squadrons, awards). I have since been digging more, hunting for any additional info on Clyde. The ultimate would be to obtain a crew or individual photo of him to accompany the helmet which is my pride and joy. I know he flew with 101 Squadron as the 'special operator' or 'SO' running the ABC radio jammer. As he was the '8th man' and often they were left out of photos due to the top secret nature of Airborne Cigar. What I do know about Clyde so far is as follows: Birthplace: Jersey Squadrons: 51 and latter 101- (the secret squadron) Rank: Flight Officer, retired Flight Lieutenant Airbases: RAF Snaith - East Yorkshire & RAF Ludford Magna - Lincolnshire RAF number: 146833 - joined RAF 1939 Role: SO (Special Operator) for ABC (Airborne Cigar) German-speaking radio transmission jammer. Flew night ops. Awards: Distinguished Flying Cross Lived: Battle - East Sussex First training flight: 24/5/41 Sorties: 51 (Final sortie 2/6/44; Berneval-le-Grand) I know he flew with a number of crews, although this particular one is listed and he appears in the book 'Nuremberg - the blackest night in RAF history' in chapter 4 as 'Eddie'. The crew is listed as follows: 55016 F/O Edward Wallis, RAFVR. (Later DFC). Pilot. 'Wally'. 175830 F/Sgt. Philip Langley Walker CAIRNS, RAFVR. Nav. (Later P/O DFC). 'Len'. 1661466 Sgt. Patrick MORRISEY, RAFVR. (Later DFM). F/E. 'Paddy'. A421248 F/Sgt. Leslie Francis CONDON, RAAF. (Later DFM). W/Op. 'Dig'. J/86582 F/Sgt Harvey Elliot CUTHBERT, RCAF. (Later P/O DFC). A/B. 'Canada'. 1821447 Sgt. John Wilson DUNBAR, RAFVR. (Later DFM). M/U. 'Ginge'. 1002414 Sgt. John Edwin POWNEY, RAFVR. (Later DFM). R/G. 'Jock'. 146833 F/O Clyde Frank Adams CLOTHIER, RAFVR. (Later DFC). Spec. Op. 'Eddie'. It is quite likely a long shot on obtaining a photo of Clyde, although nothing ventured nothing gained so I thought I would pop the question out there in these forums. He has been listed as both 'Clyde Frederick Adams Clothier' as well as 'Clyde Frank Adams Clothier' with both names appearing under the same RAF number (146833) Attached below is a photo of the mask. Anyone who happens to possibly know any additional information or where a possible photo may be please sing out. Kind regards Aaron
He is listed in AIR78 as Clyde Frederick Adams Clothier and shown as a Militia Man and F in a circle for pre war F class reserve. So conscripted just before war start with OR service number of 924102 Militia (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia He retains this OR number as Sgt until commission gazetted 15 May 1943 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36100/supplement/3281/data.pdf On commission his OR service number is then dropped and his Officer Personal Number of 146833 comes into use. So he will have two service records that if death over 25 years ago can be obtained from RAF disclosures at Cranwell one under 924102 and one under 146833. Ross
When applying for his service record from the MOD you will need to provide a copy of his death certificate - details are England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Clyde Frederick A Clothier Death Age: 71 Birth Date: 19 Nov 1919 Registration Date: Jan 1991 Registration District: Hastings and Rother Inferred County: East Sussex Volume: 18 Page: 867 For information Father Clarence Edwin Clothier (1896-1943) Mother Gertrude Eleanor Adams (Born 1899) No photos found on Ancestry TD
Aaron, Clothier was posted to Ludford Magna from No. 1651 HCU on 3 November 1943. His trade was Wireless Operator/Air Gunner. ABC operator wasn't a trade so one would see two w/ops on the same crew, in this case the late Len Condon. As far as sourcing a photograph I have been extremely lucky in that several of the men posted to 101 had done their OTU training at one of the bases where class and course photos were taken. HCU ORBs are awful and rarely list pupils, let alone have photographs. No. 1651 HCU's is one of them. Clothier was married in Jersey 19 November 1939. At the time he gave his profession as "clerk". His wife, the former Pamela Alsing, 17, is listed as spinster. I cannot find anything saying she has passed. She did have a sister with at least two children so that may be a source. If you obtain his service records and can tell me what OTU he attended I may be able to have a look for a photo for you. Regards, Dave
Hi everyone. Thank-you very much to everyone who has taken the time to reply. Temujin: Thanks for that Gazette page, I hadn't come across that one before! Interesting to see that information! Blutto: Thank-you for that info. I know after his final sortie he then ended up flying on the Berlin Airlift. RAFcommands: Thanks for the info! I know Clyde passed in 1991, as I live in New Zealand is the process for people outside of the UK easy to gain access to records do you happen to know? Tricky Dicky: Thanks for that info. I know I need death certificate info if able to apply for his service records so that is super useful. Also thanks for letting me know about photos not appearing on Ancestry, I did wonder about that. Alieneyes: Thanks Dave! Interesting that he transferred from 1651 HCU, please forgive my ignorance but is that different to the 51 squadron he supposedly flew with prior to 1943? As per I mentinoed to RAFcommands, as a Kiwi based in NZ is it relatively easy to obtain records, I noted that I need to post in a cheque as payment etc. NZ phased out cheques last year so that makes it tricky haha. I do know that Pamela his wife has passed, somewhere around 2019. I will do a little digging on a potential lead to a sister though After purchasing the helmet, goggles and oxygen set I came across his medals and logbook but it was too late and the auction had already ended. Here is a link the said auction with a little of info I received about him initially. A Bomber Command Distinguished Flying Cross group of four to Flight Lieutenant Clyde Frederick A
Online ordering for England & Wales death certificates is here. If available the online delivery option is cheaper than the postal. Not sure what if any extra costs apply for overseas applications. General Register Office - Online Ordering Service - Login
Aaron, Two completely different animals. No. 51 Squadron was a bomber squadron. No 1651 Heavy Conversion Unit was where airmen, who had completed their Operational Training Unit, went to learn on four engined machines. It also was very common for airmen who had finished their first tour to be sent to an OTU or HCU as an instructor. Any or all of the people in the attachment may be offspring. Regards, Dave
Some of his Operational Records while he was with 101 Squadron, I’m not sure if you have these or not. From 1 Jan 44 to end Mar 44. I could NOT find any further flights he did after the last mission in March. If you don’t have these, the rest are available on BNA Also, on these records most of his flights are with the Wallis Crew.
Good evening / morning everyone. Sorry for the late replies here, and thankyou to everyone for the extra bits and pieces of wisdom, info and advice. I have more now than before and it is all so appreciated. Great group of people here so keen and willing to jump in and assist! ozzy16: Thank-you so much for the Portsmouth Evening News piece Graham! I have added that to my Google Doc with all the info I have on him. Cheers buddy! Travers1940: Thanks for that info. I shall follow that up! Alieneyes: Thankyou so much for clearing that up for me. I know bits and pieces, however am learning a lot all the time. The HCU explains the blank between 51 squadron and 101 squadron! Another wee piece of the puzzle that provides an explanation to questions I had! Haha. Cheers mate! Temujin: Thankyou for that lead, I registered and downloaded the mission logs for 101 squadron and will enjoy reading through and cross referencing them all with details of each mission. It also provided me with a correction, I had him listed at 51 sorties, and it turns out to be 53 with one aborted crash on takeoff so thanks for that. Will keep compiling that all together more!
