Searching for Timothy Joseph O’Brien - The Buffs 5th battalion

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Derek Newark, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. Derek Newark

    Derek Newark Member

    My father Jack Leslie Newark was in the buffs and fought in battle at Monte Casino before his company made their up to Milan. Up until he died at 93 years old he was never able to talk about his captain without a tear in his eyes. His captain was Timothy Joseph O’Brien and I would love to trace his descendants who are probably not aware what a great man he was and how many lives he saved. Details can be found at the link below.and I would be grateful for any help in tracing them though I know the chances are slim.
    www.nemojames.com/blog/a-hero-unknown/
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Timothy Obrien
    Given Initials: T J
    Rank: Lieutenant
    Death Date: 25 Oct 1944
    Number: 297236
    Birth Place: Eire
    Residence: Pembrokeshire
    Regiment at Enlistment: Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Italy
    Regiment at Death: Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    TD
     
  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    It is conceivable that I will be paying a visit to the regimental museum over Christmas. If I do get a chance (as I hope), I'll make enquiries
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    All Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958 results for Timothy Joseph O'Brien

    Born 1913 +/- 10 years

    Timothy Joseph O'Brien Oct-Nov-Dec 1915 Bandon

    Timothy Joseph O'Brien Jan-Feb-Mar 1917 Castletown

    Timothy Joseph O'Brien Jan-Feb-Mar 1906 Claremorris

    Timothy Joseph O'Brien Apr-May-Jun 1921 Middletown

    Timothy Joseph Brien Jan-Feb-Mar 1910 Castletown

    Timothy Joseph Brien Oct-Nov-Dec 1904 Dublin South

    This will be the problem - knowing which one if indeed he is any of the above - I note in his Roll of Honour details his residence is shown as Pemrokeshire which seems odd or perhaps significant

    TD
     
  5. Derek Newark

    Derek Newark Member

    That's very kind of you thanks. What kind of records do they have at this museum? There are some incidents my father was involved in which I assume would have been written up in a report which I assume would have been kept somewhere. Would they be there ?
     
  6. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    No idea, I'm afraid.

    Last time I visisted the staff were too busy to talk to me and told me I needed an appointment.

    As it was a spontaneous visit, I wasn't able to return during my stay in the area. It is located within the much larger Maidstone Museum and I suspect that whoever runs it (perhaps unpaid) does not work full-time hours.

    There are now three separate topics I need to discuss with him, so--family commitments allowing--I will make an appointment.

    6RWK at Cassino 1944.
    1RWK in Tampin (early 50s).
    5RWK Capt. O'brien 1944.
     
  7. Derek Newark

    Derek Newark Member

    Thanks again. O'brien is certainly not the easiest Irish name to research is it. I have a subscription to ancestry.com and tried various combinations but found nothing at all about him. If I knew his wives name it would be easier. All dad remembered was he was a teacher and he had at least three children. Often I can pick these things up in the other user trees but there was nothing.
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Looks as though he was promoted from the ranks

    Page 5278 | Supplement 36270, 30 November 1943 | London Gazette | The Gazette
    The undermentioned are granted Immediate Emergency Commns. from the ranks in the rank of 2nd
    Lt
    . i4th Sept. 143:—
    6347735 Serjt. Ronald Charles BENGE (297238).
    6097647 Serjt. Daniel LENIHAN (297239). 6344327
    C.S.M. Timothy Joseph O'BRIEN (297236).
    5678061 Serjt. William John RICHARDSON (297237).

    TD
     
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  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Would he have received a new service number when commisioned?

    If so, the CSM mentioned on the earlier thread as MiD is also likely him.

    Can we see whether the citation survived?
     
  10. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Patron Patron

    KIA.JPG
     
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Ah perhaps it should read

    6344327 C.S.M. Timothy Joseph O'BRIEN (297236).

    TD
     
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  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Excellent. So it is the same man.

    Alas, they don't have the citation for his MiD at Kew.
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I hope so - it seems to be a minor formatting error - I guess

    6347735 Serjt. Ronald Charles BENGE (297238).
    6097647 Serjt. Daniel LENIHAN (297239). 6344327
    C.S.M. Timothy Joseph O'BRIEN (297236).
    5678061 Serjt. William John RICHARDSON (297237).

    TD
     
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  15. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    So we're getting somewhere.

    I have the RWK history at home. I'm away tonight, but tomorrow I'll see whether the name crops up.
     
  16. Derek Newark

    Derek Newark Member

    Thanks for the suggestion. I will try and get the service records as I see it is possible for non relatives to obtain them.
    My father seemed pretty certain he was "acting captain" and had been for a while. Does that mean there was no captain around so he did it until one was found or does it mean the time between promotion and it being made official ?
     
  17. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Acting Captain is an official term, not just 'standing in'. By 1944 there were a very large number of officers holding 'Temporary', 'Acting' and 'War Substantive' ranks above (sometimes significantly above) that which they permanently held.

    There are distinctions between the first and second kinds, but I don't recall the specifics.
     
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  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    As suggested get the service records it will take out the guessing
     
  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Get hold of the War Diaries for 5 RWK because, as an officer, it is highly likely that he will be mentioned.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  20. Derek Newark

    Derek Newark Member

    I will get his service records but I remember when I got them for my father it took many months before they arrived.
    Where do you get the war diaries then ?
     

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