2937931 George GEMMELL, Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders & SAS

Discussion in 'Special Forces' started by SAS grandson, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    I only just noticed the Gemmel, I wish it had first names/dates.

    I believe there was another gemmell documented in the SAS, and officer I believe. I do recall a story my Grandfather told me about placing lewes bombs on italian aircraft in the desert.

    any idea what LG 68 is?

    thanks for this.


     
  2. Skip

    Skip Senior Member

    The man quoted is an other rank as the officers are at the start of the Op Orbat and there are Ors either side of the Gemmel listed here. I'm pretty sure this is one of the Fuka raids on 7 July 1942
     
    SAS grandson likes this.
  3. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    But no way to know for sure if it was my grandfather or not?
     
  4. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    Skip, where have you dug this out from?


     
  5. Skip

    Skip Senior Member

    SAS Grandson - This comes from a series of reports on the July 1942 Fuka series of raids. Photocopies were sent to me years ago so I don't have a War Office reference but I'm sure they can be found at The National Archives as similar reports can be.

    True you can't say for definite that it's your grandfather but this is pre-September 1942 when the still relatively small 'L' Detachment was expanded significantly into 1st SAS Regiment. I've looked through all the other reports and there's no other mention of a Gemmel.
     
  6. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Your grandfather was a bit of a boy!
     
  7. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    Did you mean bad boy?
     
  8. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    For 4jonboy
     

    Attached Files:

  9. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Alex

    I presume from your PM that you are looking for the war diaries for your grandfathers unit.
    I have looked at the service records you have posted earlier in this thread and I think the dates you are looking for (or Drew-Andy is ;) ) are as follows:

    2 Camerons- Egypt March 41 to March 42

    2 Camerons-Egypt-attached to L Det. SAS Bde April 42

    2 Camerons-Egypt-Posted 1 SA 3 (?) Regt August 42

    5th Camerons-Egypt March 43

    (Do these help Andy?)
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    SOS (struck off strength-of the unit) 29/8/43
    Embarked UK 19/10/43
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    SOS MEF TO BNAF -struck off strength (of the unit) Middle East Force to British North Africa Force

    A thread about WTPP here
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/28213-service-record-acronym-wtpp/

    More info on X Lists here
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/15663-x-lists-service-records/


    Hope some of that helps


    Lesley
     
    grandadv and Drew5233 like this.
  10. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    Thanks Lesley,

    While I wasn't sure about the actual meaning of the acronym I was more confused by the dates shown for those entries. I have come to the conclusion they must have been added after they actually occurred and therefore that is why the dates are not in order.


    As for the acronym I am still not sure it relates to a leave or stands for something else.

    As for sas war diaries. I won't be buying the £1000 version, but based on his sas service how could I determine when he stopped fighting with them. Would he have continued with sas until his career ended or would he gave been returned to the highlanders and fought more battles with them?
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Not sure about the missing months (may be a typo) but here's what I've found so far:

    WO 169/2825 2 Cameron Highlanders - 1941 Jan.- May
    WO 169/4996 2 Cameron Highlanders - 1942 Jan.- May

    WO 218/173 L Detachment SAS Brigade (later 1 SAS Regt): formation, training and report of operations in Mediterranean area - 1941 May-1942 July
    WO 218/96 1 Special Air Service Regiment. Includes war diary for B Squadron, 1 SS Regiment for Oct 1942 - 1942 Oct.- Dec
    WO 218/97 1 Special Air Service (1 S.A.S. Regt) including 1 Special Boat Section. Raiding Forces Headquarters, including Special Boat Squadron and Special Raiding, Squadron, 1 Special Air Service (1 S.A.S. Regt) - 1942 Jan-Feb; 1943 Feb-May
    WO 218/98 Headquarters, Raiding Forces (including Special Raiding Squadron, Special Boat Squadron, 1 Special Air Service Regiment and 1 Special Boat Service Regiment) - 1943 Feb, May-July, Sept-Dec; 1944 Jan-Mar
    WO 218/105 'C' Sqn 1 S.A.S. Regt. - 1942 Nov., Dec.
    WO 218/106 'M' Detachment 1 Special Air Service Regiment and 'M' Detachment, Special Boat Squadron, 1 Special Air Service Regiment - 1943 Feb 6-21; 1943 June 1-July 12

    WO 169/101885 Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders1943 Jan.- Dec.

    Please note I'm not a Special Forces expert so wouldn't know which of the SAS files would be the most appropriate.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  12. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Sorry Alex I cannot help more.

    From his service record it looks like he was posted to 5th Camerons on 10/3/43 and in October 43 was still in 5th Camerons and posted back to UK.

    I don't know anything about L Det SAS Brigade between Apr 42 and his transfer to 5th Camerons in Mar 43.


    Lesley
     
  13. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    Based on that, any guesstimate on a cost?

    Also just caught some other thread that you may or may not see, people have gotten in contact with the sas association and say they have been helpful , I am only able to find a postal address on the website . Is there a number or email address for enquiries?

    Not that you would know but you have been very knowledgable up until now.

    Thanks for all your help.

    Alex
     
  14. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Alex

    Hard to guess the cost but at only 10p a copy it will be worthwhile.

    If it were me I would concentrate on the first two diaries of the 2nd Camerons-you never know, your grandfather may be mentioned somewhere in the appendices ;) . Even if he is not mentioned, well worth it just to see what they were up to day by day.


    Lesley
     
  15. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    As an experienced researcher I value your opinion. That said I think I could afford (my wife would be ok with me spending) up to £120.
     
  16. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    Not missing dates just late/ post dates.

    As I said the writing goes from jan to feb back to jan. It's the 3 rd uploaded page. Not a big deal.
     
  17. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Does anyone if the book Born of the Desert by Malcolm James is more of an SAS history than a personal memoir? I believe the author was the medical officer for 1 SAS and wrote it just after the war, though it has been reprinted.
     
  18. SAS grandson

    SAS grandson Member

    A personal memoir could be gold to me.
     
  19. Skip

    Skip Senior Member

    Yes, this book is a personal memoir of Malcolm James [real name Malcolm Pleydell], Medical Officer to L'Detachment SAS. He covers formation, training, and various raids such as those on Fuka that I mentioned in July 1942, Sidi Haneish later that month, the Benghazi raid of that September, and the expansion into 1st SAS not long after.

    Eminent individuals such as David Stirling, Jock Lewes, Paddy Mayne, Lord Jellicoe, Bob Bennett etc are all named correctly. Certain individuals that were wounded or killed have pseudonyms, perhaps to protect their families, whilst hardly anyone under the rank of sergeant is mentioned. It would, however, be a useful read if only to put some meat on the bones of the official reports already mentioned by Andy.
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No idea on cost (It always depends on how thick the files are) but if your budget was £120 I suspect you'd get a fair chunk of it for that unless one of the files was uber thick. £120 would get you 1,200 pages.

    If it was me I think I'd go with these three first and take it from there:

    WO 169/2825 2 Cameron Highlanders - 1941 Jan.- May (I think this diary will run to Dec and it's a typo)
    WO 169/4996 2 Cameron Highlanders - 1942 Jan.- May

    WO 218/173 L Detachment SAS Brigade (later 1 SAS Regt): formation, training and report of operations in Mediterranean area - 1941 May-1942 July
     

Share This Page