Hi, I am trying to find the exact location (i.e. Section, plot, grave no.) of a Luftwaffe airman buried in a family grave in the Dortmund-Lanstrop Catholic cemetery. 57358/172 Obergefrieter Karl Lahr, Luftwaffe, age 21 + If anyone has a contact, I would also appreciate a photograph of the grave. Kind regards Chris
Hi Chris This website tells you how to look for the grave details. Axis History Factbook: How to use the German War Graves database Regards - Rob
Afraid I don't have a contact who could help. You may have already found these, the first of which has a photo but is also looking for information. Google Translate Google Translate Bear in mind, family graves might have been reused / headstone removed etc. This is quite common, as many grave plots are on lease basis, ie not in permanent ownership. Might be different for this Catholic cemetery though.
Hi, I just stumbled upon this thread via google - I live in Dortmund-Lanstrop and I will check the cemetery / search for the grave for you. dbf is right, though. If no-one (i.e. offsprings) pays for the grave, it will be planed and reused after twenty years or so. It's different with war memorials, though and perhaps you are lucky and the grave still exists. I'll see what I can find. May I ask why you are searching for this specific grave? Greetings, the Sani (medic ;-) )
Hi Diane & Sani, Thank you for responding to this request. My reason for searching for this specific grave is that I am researching the crash site in Northumberland in which Obergefrieter Karl Lahr, Luftwaffe, was killed. He was re-interned between 1959 and 1967 which was when most Axis casualties buried in various cemetery's accross the UK were transfered to Cannock Chase, Staffordshire. Only too pleased you have offered to assist. Kind regards Chris
Good news, I found the grave. Just contact me if you need pics with higher resolution or if you want fotos from a different angle - this cemetery is just 'round the corner, no problem to go there again So... this is the catholic cemetery in Dortmund-Lanstrop (pic) As expected, nearly all graves older than 25 years don't exist any more. The Lahr family grave though is one of the oldest graves on the cemetery. The grave is located in the last row on the right side: (pic) (51°34'19.96"N, 7°33'38.96"E). Offsprings of this quite wealthy family still live in Dortmund-Lanstrop, where they owned a brickyard - so the grave still exists and is well-kept (By chance I met a man who knew some of the family and told me some stories about the Lahrs) The grave: (pic) Perhaps it was a little to sunny and bright outside when I took those fotos... The tombstone: (pic) The inscription: (pic) higher resolution: (pic) Translation of the inscription: middle of the top (above Dürer's 'praying hands') reads "Wunderfully protected by good powers, Without fear we wait for what might come. God is with us in evening and morning And most assuredly on every new day." which is from a well-known poem by theologian, pastor and anti-Nazi resistance member Dietrich Bonhoeffer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer) under Karl Lahr's name (right side, third from the top, *16.03.1922 +24.03.1943) is written "abgestürzt über England" which translates to "crashed over England". According to the guy I met the first tombstone was exchanged for a new one during the last decades (That explains the Bonhoeffer-inscription) In a book on the history of our location I found some reference of the Lahr family and some fotos of soldiers that died in WW2 - unfortunately without names. I hope this helps you. Best wishes for your research! If you have any more questions or want more fotos just contact me. It was quite a nice experience finding this grave and hearing about past times Edit: Just saw that you were looking for the exact location / grave number, too. I'll try to find that when I'm there again (I'm not in Dortmund at the moment but will come back there Friday) Edit2: deleted the links to the pictures - PM me, if you're interested in them
Excellent post Sani, thanks for putting up so much information. It was nice to read such a thorough description. I am sure that Chris will be very pleased.
From NE War Diary;- A Dornier Do 217E shot down by AA gunfire, crashed at Madam Law Farm, Kirknewton, Northumberland at 00.05. It would appear that the aircraft had come from a northerly direction, crashed into the side of Madam Law, near the top, ricocheted over the hill and came to rest in pieces on the southern side. Three of the four crewmen were thrown out of the plane and killed, the fourth was found dead inside the burnt wreckage NE Diary 1939-45; Incidents 14th/15th March 1943 to 10th May 1943 and further from New Page 1 Oberfeldwebel Fritz Kalbfleisch Pilot. Oberfeldwebel Karl Lahr Navigator Unteroffizer Walter Frank Radio Operator Oberfeldwebel Friedrich Freyh Air Gunner, now know to be the crew of Dornier 217E-4 Wk No 5432 U5+DL of 3/KG 2, one of 25 German bomber aircraft attacking targets in the North East on the night of 25 March 43 at 00.05 this aircraft crashed at Trowup Burn, south of Madamlaw, Cheviot killing all crew members, who were buried at Kirknewton Church, later all four were disinterred
Sani, Many thanks for your help, I have sent you a PM. To put it all in its correct perspective as there are many mis-leading versions of this crash and its location. Dornier 217E-4 5432 U5+DL of 3/KG2 Raid was amied at Glasgow and Edinburgh, it is believed that AA fire over Edinburgh damaged U5+DL, another source believes a 219 Sqn Beaufighter may have damaged it. Crash site:- Madam Law (hill) west of Trowupburn (pronounced Trowburn) The aircraft was reported by the police as flying from a northerly direction, (Wooler Police Occurence Book)but the Air Investigation report has it flying in a south westerly direction. There are at least 3 books which quote in-correct sites for this aircraft. After an extensive search of these said locations, I followed the AI report and crossed it with the police report, along with interviewing eyewitnesses, I drew a circle on my map and located the exact site (fragments of aircraft and 13mm ammunition etc) 4 weeks ago, All four crew were interned at St Gregory's church yard, Kirknewton, Northumberland. (St Gregoery's Burial Register War) One was initialy as 'unknown German airman', even though his name was known to the authorities in 1943, it was not confirmed until the the bodies were exhumed between 1959 and 1967 , where three of the crew were interened at Cannock Chase and 4th, Lahr, in Dortmund. Hope this helps Chris Author of: Almost Forgotten The Search for Aviation Accidents in Northumberland (Amberley Books, due out May 2011)
