"SAS Rogue Heroes" new drama on the BBC

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by AB64, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    It could have been rather better, couldn't it?

    Perhaps in BBC terms, the offering fits in with the Corporation's current perception of entertainment, history and a stereotype. Perhaps Ben Macintyre's more balanced pre-woke offering was not edgy enough.

    Have you ever noticed in News bulletins how often the general descriptor 'former soldier' seems to crop up, whenever even tentatively applicable and long in the past? Why? This is what an old associate used to describe as "Shorthand Feedback", a Media technique of having a catchphrase of convenience for a complex issue that is meant to conjure an instant sense what is being talked about. 'Credit Crunch', 'Brexit' and 'Heat or Eat' are examples.

    So now we are stuck with 'Rogue Heroes.' Good rogues, or bad rogues? We'll have to watch and see ...... putting Eysenck’s Personality Inventory aside and going with the flow whenever a Sam Browne cross-strap is not tucked under the lapel (and the rest).

    Whichever, Kipling's 'Tommy' will be ever on the button. " ..... aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor .... aren't no blackguards too."
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Definitely. Weird feature of many 'news' stories, though I don't think this is that in any appreciable way.

    Sort of nice to get an almost old-fashioned war film feel back without shoe-horning in assorted modern kultural concerns. Not much sense of being lectured & hectored.

    Wonder if there'll be more series.
    Could see this writer being more interested in Sterling's postwar life than the later war SAS.
    Scene one: An office in Saudi Arabia, 1950s...
     
  3. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Attached Files:

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  4. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Andreas, the series has at least raised public awareness of the men involved in the same way as "Peaky Blinders" did for Birmingham.
    The question always arises as to what constitutes the "Public". By encouraging discussion other stories emerge whilst others prove to be in error.
    I shall look forward to reading your books when they emerge, that is of course if they are affordable by the time the Publishers have finished with them.
    Their exploits captured many people's imagination including my family, who for years thought that one uncle was "up to something" in the Western Desert, as he didn't write home from 1941 until Christmas 1944 in Italy.
    My research on Ancestry revealed that he was with 4AFS,3AFS,3GHQ and 1UG Coy CMF. Being in the latter when he sent a Christmas card home.

    His mother had carried a newspaper cutting of POW's at Tobruk thinking that he was one of them.
    He didn't go home until her funeral, after which he left his medals in his bookcase drawer and never returned.
    This is one of the reasons that I am here today, bitten by the WW2 bug,
    The true original inspiration was a Great Uncle who was thought to lie as an unknow soldier somewhere in France.
    Ancestry revealed different, he is buried in Baghdad North Gate Cemetry having died of Heat stroke in July 1917
    with 6th KORLR.

    Over the years I got to know a few ex-SAS some on my travels abroad, some were neighbours, work colleagues, a few were even Male Models for Outdoor Clothing.
    Just ordinary guys with a taste for adventure, no different to the climbers you used to meet in Snowdonia or the Brecon Beacons.
    The mad dog thing is I think legend in the same way as Eric Blood Axe is to followers of Anglo Saxon/Norse history.
    It is an ancient saying:
    You are never dead as long as someone speaks your name
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Knight saying next series green lit and 3 more probable.
    Talks of indeed continuing the war, possible Colditz spin-off and maybe 'beyond'.
    No shortage of material out there for Sterling alone.
     
  6. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    That certainly seems to be the case.

    I am getting a lot of satisfaction out of the way in which Laycock is portrayed in the first episode.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  7. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    This may be within the realms of "beyond" as described in a downloadable article by Lorie Charlesworth from "SAS ": in this instance meaning "London University School of Advanced Study":

    ".....extensive War Office (WO) and other records reveal the role serving soldiers played in war crimes prosecutions and one unexpected element; namely that, alongside British Army War Crimes Investigation Teams (WCIT), members of the Special Air Services (SAS) made an unexpected contribution to war crimes prosecutions (Charlesworth, Lorie, “2 SAS Regiment, War Crimes Investigations and British Intelligence: Intelligence Officials and the Natzweiler Trial,” (2006) Journal of Intelligence History, 13). In short, these WO records reveal investigative activity with a personal connection between victims, investigators and prosecutors, unlike that underpinning the public spectacle of Nuremberg."

    Issue 74 (2008) | Amicus Curiae

    The article referred to within the extract above published in the Journal of Intelligence History is well worth a look if you have access ( which I don't, apart from viewing extracts, but it does reference files in TNA file series WO 311 which in 2006 had only recently been released, and I have seen a fair amount of AG3 (V/W) and JAG files.) ( Adjutant General 3 (Violations of the Laws and Usages of War) , Judge Advocate General ). Whilst a very great deal more material has become available online since 2005 it is still very difficult to research WO 311 when the series should have many more files in it than it does contain, ( we have indices to some files which are not there ) and many that are there have been "filleted." Also, many documents appear on the wrong files according to their 1940's references within letters, memoranda, etc.

    By the way, a lot of so called "Secrets" were not secret at all, but it's the USP of the SAS.

    ( I've not looked at the current TV programme.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
  8. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    I've seen some WO311 stuff from the desert, and it is sobering reading, particularly in the context of the 'clean war' myth still reverberating.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  9. sanchez

    sanchez Patron Patron

    I've watched 4 episodes so far and think its very good . "New Rose" by the Damned being played while Messerschmitts are being blown up , that will do for me .
     
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  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    ok ok have watched 4 and will continue
    I am learning bits from it I think via a quick google here and there

    were they that mad?
     
  11. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Watched the first episode again on my own, on my computer, earphones on and sound turned up.
    Like Peaky Blinders, forget the history just enjoy it.
    Good tunes and a bit like a thrill ride.
    Will watch the others later.

    Some similarities with past TV series.
    The character of the big Irish Sgt Harper in Sharp stands out a mile.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    I appear to be not to be an old rocker and think the tunes are a din
     
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  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Crikey I am hopeless
    Did not realise or maybe even remember Stirling got captured

    These hit-and-run operations eventually proved Stirling's undoing; he was captured by the Germans in January 1943 having been dubbed "The Phantom Major" by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel.[4] Although Stirling escaped his capture by the Germans, he was subsequently re-captured by the Italians, who took great delight in the embarrassment this caused to their German allies.[5][6][7] A further four escape attempts were made, before Stirling was finally sent to Colditz Castle, where he remained for the rest of the war.[6] He arrived on 20 August 1944 and was given the task of setting up the Colditz British Intelligence Unit.[8] After his capture Paddy Mayne took command of the SAS.[9]
    David Stirling - Wikipedia
     
  14. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Numbers of people, many largely unknown, passed through the SAS and British Intelligence.
    The Aristocracy knew each other socially, a ready-made network of "Old Boys" which offered the security of personal recognition and acceptance.

    I have just taken a look to see if Stirling or any others had appeared on "This is Your Life" a long running BBC series.
    I came across this character: Sir Fitzroy Maclean, 1st Baronet - Wikipedia
    He appears to have been involved in some of their activities but moved on to higher domains.

    .This Is Your Life (British TV series) - Wikipedia

    There are so many forgotten programs that we used to watch about "The War". All in Black and white.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2022
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  15. adam1981

    adam1981 Member

    Hello all, my father has a period photo album which has some photo's of SAS men with clear insignia on leave in WW2 and in Palestine post war. Some of these include photos in the desert and in jeeps. There are three individuals that I would be very interested to know if they are early SAS men and if these photos are indeed early SAS?.
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Certainly a familiar chap...
    wwiini-sas-desert-patrols.jpg
    Mayne in your second pic?
    can't exactly recall the chaps in this well-known image. Pretty certain they're ID'd, but on the phone at the mo.
     
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  17. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    Anthony Deane-Drummond was on TIYL; he served in North Africa about the time, but I don't know if he was amongst the "Rogue Heroes". He later took part in Op COLOSSUS, MARKET GARDEN and was subsequently CO 22 SAS in Malaya inter alia, retiring as a Major General with CB, DSO and MC*.
     
  18. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    It was briefly discussed here previously - SAS, Identify Members in Photo
     
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  19. adam1981

    adam1981 Member

    Wow, if thats Paddy Mayne in the picture then it confirms this gent was an early SAS member. The album has some really nice original badges including Belgian Commando and French Foreign Legion, which I assume were swapped as keepsakes. I believe the gent in the photo by himself is called Clarkson but have found no reference to him anywhere.
    Thanks for your response to my post.
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Your second picture looks very much like the second from foreground in the famous image. My broken memory thought that might be Mayne, but
    Ramiles reference to the IDs of that shot would possibly make him Kennedy.
     

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