Hello all, While waiting impatiently to accompany Frank to Salerno next April (fingers crossed!), I've been doing some research of my own into the battle and am struggling to find a coherent account of the fighting on what the Hants regimental history call "the foothills above Salerno". I am somewhat hindered as one of the few infantry battalion war diaries that I haven't yet got is that of the 5th Hants. From the Hants history though, it looks like the 5th Hants first occupied 'White Cross Hill' during the 11th September with a composite company after recovering from the trauma of their experiences on the 9th. The next two days appear to have been relatively quiet - then after dark on the evening of 14 September a German counter-attack drove the 5th Hants composite coy off 'White Cross Hill' - as it was being relieved by a company from 8th Bn Royal Fusiliers of 167 Bde (56 Div) which was taking over from 128 Bde and coming under command of 46 Div. I've got 167 Inf Bde's war diary for this period - and I'm just beginning to transcribe that which might help understand the sequence of events for 14/15 September. According to the Hants history though, several counter-attacks over the next few days by the Hants battalions were then beaten off before the 2nd Hants recaptured White Cross Hill on 18 Sep 43. This seems strange as I had assumed that 167 Bde would have taken over the task of recapturing these positions. Yet, the medal citation for Major Doughty-Wylie clearly records his part in the recapture of 'White Cross Hill (682321) (although that seems too far west for me). I also know that 2 Cdo and 41 RM Cdo were brought into the area on 15 September and recaptured and held some of these hills but their presence doesn't seem to be mentioned by the Hants. Were they under 167 Bde for these operations? Can anyone offer any other useful sources to allow us to try to clarify this conundrum? Or a detailed map showing the exact layout of these positions? Regards Tom
And a view from the other side of the hill (literally in this case) suggests that the German attack on the evening of 14 September by elements of HG Div was given 'Heights 236/419 as the first objectives for the attack to be launched that night'. Do those spot heights align with British accounts? Regards Tom
Tom 'C' Company of the 2/5th Leicesters was put under command of the 128th Bde and attached to the 2nd Bn Hants on the 14th Sept. Early hours of the 15th they took up positions on 'Rocky Hill' but their positions were given away by a 3" Mortar of the 5 Hants which was situated immediately below that position. They later were also attached to the 1/4 Hants around that area check out the pdf/ excel files on this thread for further details (appendix 3 etc). Theres's also a MM citation for one of Leicesters 'C' Coy attacking White Cross Hill on the 16th Sept
Tom Also check out this other thread Mentions White cross hill, the crag and the pimple and also has a couple of maps
Hi, Many thanks, useful stuff which I'll need to try to get my head around. I found the contemporary British maps from the second thread you linked and have taken this snip to try and help with all of the conflicting map references. But I might have to look into making up a map myself so that I can follow the action better. With that and a bit of Google map walking, I'm hoping to get a sense of the ground. I'll also have a look and see if any of the German sources have useful maps in sufficient scale to understand what they were up to. Regards Tom
Tom I wish you luck with your endeavor. I know when i looked at the Salerno landings a few years back i had difficulty trying to identify features listed in war diaries etc. Got the feeling that various units had their own pet names for the same features. Think i found 5 different features dotted all around Salerno all known as the 'Pimple' by various units. If you have any other queries etc post them up and i'll try help if i can
And it would be interesting to try to identify where this photo was taken on 15 Sep 43 (IWM NA 6815):
you could ask matteo00 He knows the area well and previously identified some locations for me from old photos. I'll dig around in my old emails and see if i've still got them
Kongstam in Salerno 1943 shows White Cross Hill as being north of 'The Pimple'. Which I estimate to be about here on the map provided previously: Using the map reference provided by Doughty-Wylie of 682321, and the conversion tool here The "Coordinates Translator" (echodelta.net), placing the location in the rN sector of the British Coordinates for Italian Southern Italy, using the guide map for this region, I have placed the location as 40° 41' 17'' N 14° 48' 27'' E, which correlates with the approximation in the above map. (Enter the coordinates 40° 41' 17'' N 14° 48' 27'' E, in Google to see location).
BFBSM, Thanks. I'm pretty sure you are close, but I wonder if the White Cross is still there. If it was, that would help as I virtually drive around those hills looking for a clue or two! I'm a little surprised that there aren't more memorials from British units up there. It doesn't seem to be like NW Europe in that respect. Now the National Archives are reopening I'm hoping to get there for a quick shufti some time over Xmas so I can pick up some more diaries. I've noted that at least one RE company was attached to 167 Inf Bde around that area. Hopefully their war diary will contain some well surveyed map references. I'm also sure I've seen a picture of a Bishop SP Gun from 142nd Field Regt RA with a White Cross hill in the background but can no longer find it. Anyone else seen that? Regards Tom
