S.S. Tynwald and the "Jewel"

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by ww2ni, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    I have learned of a ship called SS Tynwald which was in Belfast and then taken into Naval Service in April 1940. Work was completed on making her suitable for Naval service in November 1941 but then she was sunk on 12th November 1942.

    Does anyone know anything about this ship and what it was used for?

    The "Jewel" - All the info I have is that it was built in 1908 and R. 84t (Whatever that means??)

    She was mined in Belfast Lough in 1941.

    Was she a cargo ship? Were there any losses?
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  3. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    12 November 1942

    In Bougie harbour the anti-aircraft ship Tynwald was sunk by a mine.
  4. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    18 May 1941

    The mine sweeping drifter Jewel was sunk by mine in Belfast Lough.

    "R" could be related to this - Requisitioned 1940.
  5. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Isle of Man Steam Packet Co.; Built 1937; Vickers Armstrongs;
    2,376 tons; 1,379 n.h.p.; 21 knots; turbine engines.

    The steamship TYNWALD was taken over by the Admiralty in April 1940 and refitted with armament.

    1 October 1941 commissioned and renamed HMS TYNWALD,
    10 November 1942 sailed from Algiers arrived Bougie 11 November to provide anti-aircraft support and direct aircraft from the carrier HMS ARGUS.
    12 November 1942 while standing by the monitor HMS ROBERTS the TYNWALD was torpedoed on the starboard side by the Italian submarine ARGO (Lt. Pasquale Gigli),she settled by the bow on the seabed, survivors being rescued by HMS ROBERTS and the corvette SAMPHIRE. 10 men on board the TYNWALD were killed.

    Some sources suggest she was hit by a mine and others suggest she was torpedoed by the italian sub ARGO.
    I am sure this file may give more information. ADM 267/130

    HM drifter JEWEL (84grt, T/Sub Lt G H.J Cresswell RNVR) was sunk on a mine one mile 215° from Pile Light, Belfast Lough. with the loss of all hands (14).

    "R" could be related to this - Requisitioned 1940.

    Simply means Registered with regard to tonnage ie 84 gross registered tons.

  6. Vitesse

    Vitesse Senior Member

    The "R 84t" does appear to mean requisitioned and to have been copied from navalhistory.net's entry. The Jewel was sunk on May 18th 1941 while on minesweeping duties. It appears only one body - the skipper's - was recovered: MPK stands for "missing presumed killed".

    ANDREWS, Frederick W, Stoker, RNPS, LT/KX 102649, MPK
    CRABTREE, Leslie, Seaman Steward, RNPS, LT/JX 205735, MPK
    CRESSWELL, George H J, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNVR, killed
    ENGLAND, William J C, Seaman, RNPS, LT/JX 174438, MPK
    INGLIS, David F, Seaman, RNPS, LT/JX 180238, MPK
    JAMES, Herbert E, Ordinary Signalman, RNPS, D/JX 231536, MPK
    KELSO, John S, Ordinary Seaman, RNPS, LT/JX 228182, MPK
    LENNON, John, Stoker, RNPS, LT/KX 106886, MPK
    LEONARD, Walter, Engineman, RNPS, LT/KX 102505, MPK
    MOULTON, Robert B, Wireman, P/MX 63954, MPK
    PINKNEY, James E, Engineman, RNPS, LT/KX 102491, MPK
    PROCTOR, John A, Seaman, RNPS, LT/JX 183714, MPK
    SCARBOROUGH, Robert, Seaman Cook, RNPS, LT/JX 164375, MPK
    TAYLOR, John W, 2nd Hand, RNPS, LT/JX 180450, MPK

    Source: Royal Navy casualties, killed and died, May 1941
  7. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    The "R 84t" does appear to mean requisitioned
    Yes, you are quite correct - my error.
  8. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    Folks, You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge!!

    Thanks very much.
  9. Winch

    Winch Junior Member

  10. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Hello and sorry to disappoint, but I think you'll actually find that the image IS of HMS Tynwald (SS Tynwald IV) because if you scroll 3/4th the way down this page, I.of Man S.P. story you'll find another view of this same ship.
    Still, look forward to your further postings!
  11. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    I noticed this earlier today when looking for another reference in DUNKIRK – Retreat To Victory (Major General Julian Thompson, PAN, 2008), page 269:

    “In the evening of that horrendous day, 1 June [1940], the crew of the Tynwald, having completed three trips, also refused to sail. She sailed twenty-four hours later with a relief crew and a Royal Navy party, although with her chief officer as master and five others of her ship’s company. She ultimately completed five trips.”

    -Basically, a story about merchant crews refusing to sail to Dunkirk during the evacuation.

    Thompson’s authority is: Correlli Barnett, Engage the Enemy More Closely: The Royal Navy in the Second World war (Hodder & Stoughton, 1991), pages 159/160.

  12. Ivor

    Ivor Junior Member

    Tynwald was massively modified from her civilian guise and was an Auxiliary Anti-Aircraft Cruiser. She was badly damaged by bombing during conversion.

    We have a model of her in the Manx Aviation & Military Museum. I'm afraid I don't have a better photo than this. She is the second one down.
    HMS Ben My Chree (WW1 seaplane carrier) is below her.
    Regarding the "mutiny" in the post above, there was some justification for the crews' refusal to sail. I'm not going into this here, but I should like to point out that Steam Packet vessels rescued some 25,000 men from France and three of the company's vessels were lost.

    Attached Files:

  13. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member


    I was quoting from a book. My intention in writing was to use that source solely to flag the Tynwald's involvement in the evacuation from Dunkirk, which had not been previously touched on i.e. widening the information in this thread about the Tynwald, not to criticise its original crew (or Steam Packet vessels) in a negative way. I think it would be folly to so criticise without knowledge of the facts; which I certainly don't have.

    The original enquirer asked “Does anyone know anything about this ship and what it was used for?”

    Are you able to help with further information?

  14. Ivor

    Ivor Junior Member

    I realise you were quoting. Unfortunately several authors have produced books without having gone to the trouble of examining primary sources, which is why there are several books which make reference to what appears to be mutiny. One day the real story will be told but it's too big a tale to tell here.

    Regarding Tynwald, we don't have a lot more information. As an Auxiliary A-A Cruiser she was initially used on convoy escort duties in the Irish Sea and North-West Approaches before heading for the Med in support of Operation Torch. I've got a 2-hour recording of an interview with one of her crew who was at Dunkirk and who was on board when she was sunk. It is an amazing and very moving record.

    The story of the Steam Packet's ships in both world wars is a big one, which we are working on for the museum.
  15. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member


    I think those interested in this thread, indeed a much wider audience, will be keen to hear the crew members story...

    When will the Museum's story of the Steam Packet's ships in both world wars be finalised? I’m over in the IoM on business from time to time (including next month) and will put a visit on my agenda!

  16. Ivor

    Ivor Junior Member

    It will be some time before the exhibit is completed but we have currently got some interesting Steam Packet stuff on display.

    PM sent re your visit, Steve.
  17. paulcheall

    paulcheall Son of a Green Howard

    Anyone reading this topic might be interested in a posting I have made on my web site - it's the papers of Capt Tom Wilson of the Lady of Mann and what a story has to be told about his ship at Dunkirk. Go to http://bit.ly.mannww2

  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  19. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Hi, I found a thread on here, I don't remember where as I am a newbie, but there was a discussion regarding tynewald (some spelling is Tynwald, but originally spelled tynewald) she was s.s. tynewald and she was a steamer packet ship , isle of man, but she went to Dunkirk 5 times and the crew refused to go a 6th. Manned by volunteers weary and without sleep, they picked up over 1,200 men in the 5 times they went back and couldn't physically go for a 6th. They weren't the only ones but it was kept quiet by powers that be at the time because of morale and not wanting the Nazis to know. The thread I found on this site was a discussion about it. wish I could find it again but its hard to navigate at first. I am looking for a crew list for that Dunkirk rescue so if you find one please let me know. best wishes jan1
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Was it this one ?
    Personnel Vessel Crews Refused to Sail to Dunkirk

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