S.M.L.E. rifle came from the Somme is this a bullet that had indented the barell photos inclosed

I recieved this S.M.L.E. rifle from ww1 that apparently came from the battlefield at the Somme, the relic was caked in soil when i cleaned it up exactly where the indent was dropped out this circular metal object, i wondered if anyone would no if this could possibly be a bullet head if anyone could help it would be much appreciated.







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also in the relic is what looks like to be a 303 bullet never fired.

 

I recieved this S.M.L.E. rifle from ww1 that apparently came from the battlefield at the Somme, the relic was caked in soil when i cleaned it up exactly where the indent was dropped out this circular metal object, i wondered if anyone would no if this could possibly be a bullet head if anyone could help it would be much appreciated.

I can't help with the mystery item but I've got to ask if the SMLE was caked in soil has further archaeological work been done at the recovery site? I can't help wondering if anything much more significant could lie there....?

Regards

Jonathan

 

I purchased item at headcorn orps last summer from a dealer who dug there so i would think he would of possibly covered the site regards brad

 

Definatly not a bullet, it looks more like a shrapnel ball. Could even be from a British 18LB projectile but I'm pretty sure the Germans will have had somthing similar.

There are some people out there that would flip a lid if they saw the photo of the live .303 in the chamber, just be carefull with it as even though it is upwards of 93 years old, people have been mamed by relic ordnance.

 

Dug there or used a metal detector?

He sold you a soil encrusted bit of a SMLE with what appears to contain a live .303

If he didn't know of the latter fact then it sounds like a bit of a dodgy piece of recovery work to me. If he did then what he did is both illegal and in my opinion, very unethical.

By the way, that's not a criticism of you at all Brad.

 

thanks for your advice can you recommend where to take it to either check it out or advise me on this.

 

Thanks for your advice Jonathan in this game your always learning

 

thanks for your advice can you recommend where to take it to either check it out or advise me on this.

I'd leave it as it is if i were you (just don't chuck it on a fire or try hammering a nail into the back of that round and it'll be OK)... just appreciate it for what it is - an interesting historical object that probably has some story to tell (and chances are that it's simply a field find anyway... dug up and dumped on the surface of a field that's been ploughed and disturbed for decades - if an in depth archaelogical survey was conducted for every find, then agriculture in France would stop dead in its tracks!!!!)

dave

(Here're some of mine... all field finds from the '80s and '90s - SMLE, Lebel and G98)

 

I learn something every time I come on this forum Brad.

There is a memorial to the missing on the Somme that contains 72,000 names. Those boys are yet, if ever, to be found. My point is that some of these guys who go recovering this type of stuff will just take whatever catches their eye or beeps in their headphones. There always remains the slim possibility that they might just disturb the remains of a man who has been missing since 1916 onwards and the chance to recover him and even possibly identify him could be lost forever.

That's just my opinion, no doubt others will think differently.

Cheers

Jonathan

 

cheers Dave for your advice I will keep it in a safe place and treat it with the respect it truly deserves, like you say it must have a story to tell.

 

The round in the breech is live as you can clearly see the percussion cap has not been struck. It is illegal to own live ammunition without the appropriate paperwork ie a firearms licence etc.

I've just checked my operational handbook and possession of ammunition without a certificate is a Section 1 Firearms offence. It carries a maximum sentence of 5 years (My handbook is dated 2007 and I think there is a greater sentence now). The fact it was imported into the UK may make it a more serious offence as it was imported illegally.

 

The round in the breech is live as you can clearly see the percussion cap has not been struck. It is illegal to own live ammunition without the appropriate paperwork ie a firearms licence etc.

I've just checked my operational handbook and possession of ammunition without a certificate is a Section 1 Firearms offence. It carries a maximum sentence of 5 years (My handbook is dated 2007 and I think there is a greater sentence now). The fact it was imported into the UK may make it a more serious offence as it was imported illegally.

IMHO, Britain needs far less regulations and the inevitable bureaucrats who go along with them. Brad would seem to be a very slight risk to British society or to himself!

Thankfully and at long last, Canada recently dismantled it's long gun firearm registry. Creating an expensive, bureaucratic mess was quite onerous to all Canadian duck hunters but did nothing whatsoever to reduce crime. Criminals, it now appears, did not actively register their stolen or smuggled hand guns.

 

Not my field (excuse the pun), but ain't there a distinction about owning antique firearms + ammo. I know antique = 100yrs, so lose it for 3yrs!
Rob

 

IMHO, Britain needs far less regulations and the inevitable bureaucrats who go along with them. Brad would seem to be a very slight risk to British society or to himself!


I'm sure Brad is a pillar of his community and the items he has are not illegal in the UK if he has the appropriate paperwork/licence.

As for being a very slight risk to British society or to himself, they probably thought the same thing about Micheal Ryan and his collection of AK's, M1 Carbines and the like.

I'm glad the UK has tough firearm laws....We don't need assault rifles and semi-automatic pistols etc in the UK.

 

Not my field (excuse the pun), but ain't there a distinction about owning antique firearms + ammo. I know antique = 100yrs, so lose it for 3yrs!
Rob

Coorecto mondo my old son but I think that applies only to firearms not the ammunition. I maybe wrong as my source doesn't cover the ammunition part of the offence in that much detail.

 

Bit of a mine-field this then!!!!

Sorry could'nt resist it

 

Bit of a mine-field this then!!!!

Sorry could'nt resist it

I never got involved after an initial find - Thats what ARV's are for

 

First, that rifle is without doubt technically illegal, both as a Section 1 weapon and also because of the live round. Whether anyone would bother to prosecute you for having an obvious relic is another matter.

Second, there is no law that says a 100 year old firearm is an antique and so does not need a certificate. Any cartridge firing firearm which is chambered for a calibre not on the obsolete calibre list is a Section 1 Firearm. For example, a Lee-Enfield made in 1900 is over 100 years old but is definitely Section 1.

Going back to the original question, I agree with the previous poster, that is a shrapnel ball, not a bullet. Indeed it looks very like an 18 Pdr ball as it appears to be made of lead and most German shrapnel balls were iron.

Finally, my usual plea. Can we call them bullets please or projectiles, and NOT bullet heads? The head of a cartridge is the part that surrounds the primer, hence the term "headstamp". The misuse of the the term "head" seems to have originated in the advertisements of some dealers who ought to know better!

I'll go now...

Regards
TonyE

 

I have to agree with TonyE and Drew on this one. Bottom line is, if you haven't got the required firearms licence, you can't own live ammunition!
I know it's a shame that antiques and relics such as this get caught up in this law but there you have it.

As to whether or not the CPS would prosecute in these circumstances, all I can say is that I've seen people get away with much more but on the other hand I've also seen people "done" for less so it's really the luck of the draw!

All the best...........

 

Is it Section 1 ? I can't imagine that there is much rifling left - on the other hand, I don't suppose that it's a very smooth bore either.

This is one of those things that, in my opinion is better not posted on an intenet forum. It's not just walls that have ears and it's very difficult to give pragmatic advice on an open forum.

I have to say that I wouldn't have wanted to be the one that brought it into the UK although I suppose that it may not have been known that there was one up the spout.

If they find something like that at a border control, the next step is likely to be on with the rubber gloves and "bend over" as they search for the rest of the terrorist arsenal.