S/Ldr A Cain - Bomber Command

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Andrew RH Clark, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Can anyone help me by providing any information about this chap. All I know is that he was working, during 1944, in 'Organisation 3' - which was a section within either Bomber Command Headquarters or the Air Ministry. Any help welcome and appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Due to todays date, humorous responses could be...
    "Cain? That name rings Abel" or
    "He was the father of Michael, not any people know that."..

    Hopefully someone sensible can help you further.... :)
     
  3. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    How do you know that? Can you attach a photo of whatever you hold with that reference as sometimes the real gurus here can extrapolate info from the contect.
     
  4. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    KevinBattle - I suppose I should be giving you some 'stick' for that, but I'll pass that 'baton' to someone else! :D

    DaveB - In some copies of documents I obtained from the National Archives. Unfortunately all they show is his signature and 'Squadron Leader' and 'Organisation 3' typed beneath. Elsewhere he has signed for the Wing Commander Organisation 3, who appears to have been W/Cdr D.G. Singleton.

    I have nothing else to go on, I'm afraid - and that's not just because of the current shortage of loo rolls!

    Thanks to you both for replying
     
    KevinBattle likes this.
  5. Jagan

    Jagan Junior Member

  6. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Hi Sagan and thanks for trying - I can't find him anywhere. I've attached a photo of his signature this time - in case I'm misreading it.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    I will have took further but I think he may have been involved in Operational Research with the Air Ministry or B.C HQ at High Wycombe.
     
  8. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Thanks, Harry Ree. I'm pretty sure he was at Bomber Command HQ rather than the ORS. I think he served under a W/Cdr D.G. Singleton, as the latter also appears to have been in 'Organisation 3'. Any information about BCHQ would be very much welcomed. Thanks again, Andrew
     
  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    A deeper look into Operational Research has revealed the informative history of wartime organisations.Thanks to Will Thomas who has researched and listed this valuable information.It might lead to the individual RAF officers' duties being revealed.

    Lists of Wartime Operational Research Groups
     
  10. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Acting Wing Commander Dennis Gordon SINGLETON (29180), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

    Is it possible that the signature reads A. CAEN (FLTLT in 1942 - 74069)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  11. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Hi DaveB. I'm pretty sure you're right about W/Co Singleton but I'm concerned that, if the chap I'm looking for is A.E. Caen, why wouldn't he use both initials in his signature? It is still a bit of a puzzle, but I'm going to keep trying to solve it.Thanks again :) Andrew
     
  12. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Lots of people don't use all their initials in their signature and/or have different versions at different stages in their life. It's not unusual.
     
  13. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Robert-w. That's true, I guess, and rest assured that I'll be trying to follow the lead DaveB kindly gave me :)
     
  14. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Thinking about tracing the two RAF officers,it occurred to me that the best source to investigate would be the appropriate Air Force List.It's known that the Germans resorted to this prewar.

    The nearest one I had sourced is the September 1943 one.It's a massive file and takes a considerable time to open.I have trawled through the Air Ministry list and not found a Caen but a R H Cain which I feel is the surname that is being search for.I think that Caen as a name maybe misleading.

    R H Cain is shown on the staff of the Air Ministry "Department at the Air Member for Supply and Organisation"

    Last night after some considerable time, I arrived at the General Duties category,ie,commissioned aircrew which having entered the source.so far there is no information on the two officers concerned.

    What a fascinating document the Air List is for anyone interested in organisational structures and also seeing individuals who played an important role in working up the Royal Air Force from 1 April 1918 and still having a role to play.For instance, Marshal of the Royal Air Force,Sir Edward L Ellington is shown as a Regional Air Liaison Officer along with AVM H M Cave Brown Cave.

    Other departments caught my eye included.

    Directorate of Air Tactics
    Engines,Propellors and Accesories Modification Committee
    Director of Counter Propaganda
    NAFFI representation
    Inspector of Royal Air Forces Badges.
    Commonweath and Allies Air Forces including addresses
    Military Air Attaches, an abundance of those in this role..(I note the one for Moscow had the highest rank,that of Group Captain)

    Bomber Command HQ address simply shown as GPO High Wycombe

    (There's an interesting reference to Air Commodore R Ivelaw-Chapman who it transpired was designated as a "Bigot"in that he knew of the plans for D Day and possessed the highest security classification while at Bomber Command HQ.After he assumed command at Elsham,he took undertook an unauthorised raid as a spare bod with one of his squadrons at Elsham, No 576 Squadron on 7 May 1944 to an ammunition target at Aubigne. The Lancaster was lost with six killed out of the eight in the aircraft He was eventually captured after being on the run with the Donkeyman SOE network.Less than 10 hours before he was scheduled to be brought out by Lysander on June 8/9 1944 in the Le Mans area,he was captured when the Gestapo raided the house where he was hiding.The other survivor,Sgt J A Ford RAAF evaded.Obviously there was considerable anxiety at SHAEF when Ivelaw-Chapman went missing and the welcome news from Donkeyman that he was safe from the Germans initiated a few plans to get him out of France.In the end, his capture had overrun the D Day landings and the German interrogation thrust was to establish where he obtained his forged French papers from....nothing related to the operations in Normandy.)

    Better this morning, I found another Air Force List,again sourced from the Library of Scotland but more user friendly,dated November 1943.This should be able to provide information on the two officers providing the correct surnames have been established.

    (8) Contents - Air Force lists > Air Force list > Bimonthly > 1943 > November - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland
     
  15. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Thanks again Harry Ree. I have gone through my electronic copies of the July and October 1944 editions of the Air Force Lists, but can't find the elusive S/L Cain, or Caen that seem to fit the bill, but I agree that they are fascinating and useful documents. I'm still ploughing through the rest of the file, so perhaps more will come to light in there. I still have a long way to go on this project! Thanks again. Andrew
     
    Harry Ree and JimHerriot like this.
  16. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Just a point about Bomber Command HQ.I always thought the place would be in an urban area, heavily guarded. When I served in the Royal Air Force, Bawtry was still No 1 Group HQ and the communication path to High Wycombe from Bawtry was as it was during the war.

    However over a month ago while at my son's in Oxfordshire, he said we will have a ride out and I will show you where it is. It's located in beautiful countryside and might pass for a training establishment. It has a Hurricane and a Spitfire, both replicas of operational aircraft, at the entrance but surprising to me, there was a not a replica Lancaster in sight...a few photographs taken of the aircraft which can be posted...I thought I might be apprehended.

    Then as a surprise, my son told me that he had requested for me, as a former member of postwar Bomber Command, a tour of the HQ as arranged for visitors but had received no reply...maybe increased security the reason.

    It's interesting to see how the location was chosen for the new command in the final years of peace...something I learnt after visiting the location.

    RAF High Wycombe - Wikipedia
     
  17. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    Thanks again, Harry Ree - all interesting information. Cheers, Andrew
     
  18. Andrew RH Clark

    Andrew RH Clark Active Member

    There is a possibility that Sqd/Ldr A Cain could be Albert Cain (1539877). He apparently enlisted at Padgate in April 1941, but I can't find out anything else about him.........
     

Share This Page