Royal Navy Officer at a Funeral in Germany- Picture Mystery

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by MTG, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Sergeant R G F ALDERSLEY (R/69545), Royal Canadian Air Force) [Royal Air Force WW2 Casualty ]

    first buried at Parnewinkel together with two crew of L9530

    Halifax I L9530 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database]
    Flight Sergeant W Woods, Sergeant A T Niven: killed; Flight Lieutenant C C Cheshire, Sergeant P H T Horrox, Sergeant G J Smalley, Sergeant R Wash: prisoners of war; aircraft shot down and crashed at Parnewinkel near Hamburg, Germany, Halifax L9530, 76 Squadron, 13 August 1941.


    Flight Sergeant W WOODS (531299), Royal Air Force) [Royal Air Force WW2 Casualty ]
    additional information about the Wellington crash at Buxtehude. Niven and Woods are buried directly next to the crew of Wellington Z8835 (26.C.)with the exception of Aldersley (26.B.). As we know all were first buried in Parnewinkel so they have been recovered from the same area and probably the same salvage unit.


    So it would appear there were a number of aircrew buried at Parnewinkel

    TD


    Add Information to Record of a Person who served during the Second World War on the The Wartime Memories Project Website
    Fireman. Chuen Chan
    Merchant Navy S.S. Benarty
    (d.16th April 1941)
    Chuen Chan was aged 29 when he died and is buried in the Parnewinkel Cemetery in Germany.


    https://www.secret-bases.co.uk/wiki/Stalag_X-B
    Cemeteries
    POW camps were required by Wehrmacht regulations to have a cemetery close-by. Initially, the dead of Stalag X-B were buried in the war cemetery at Parnewinkel, where a World War I POW camp had been located previously. As the number of dead rose in 1940, a second cemetery was established near Sandbostel, about 1.2 kilometres from the camp.[2][8]
    Non-Soviet and Soviet POWs were treated differently even in death. The former were buried with military honours in individual graves, the latter in 70 mass graves.[8]
    At Sandbostel, the cemetery has two sections. Gräberfeld 1 includes the mass graves. In 1954-56 Gräberfeld 2 received the roughly 2,400 dead among the former concentration camp inmates who could not be identified.[9]
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  2. MTG

    MTG Member

    I've been plugging the names of the bomber crews that TD linked above into the CWGC search engine. They are listed in the Runnymede Memorial which means they have no known graves. When reading the information about Sandbostel and the graveyard, there was a lot of reburials conducted after the war...by the French especially. The question is- are those three RAF servicemen still there?
    As someone who is still trying to locate several family members with no known graves, being able to help others would be wonderful...
     
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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    There are several aircrew that appear to be buried at Parnewinkel cemetery - the ones I noted earlier where just before I left for a dentists appointment and I didnt have time to check them out. I noted a few were on the Runnymede Memorial so highly unlikely that its any of them because their bodies were not recovered whereas from the photos you have uploaded something remained to be buried. Having said that its always possible they just found 3 (or whatever the number was) bodies but could not identify them.
    From the details unearthed in post 41 it seems likely that there were at least 9 graves of airmen at Parnewinkel

    It would be interesting to know if that cemetery still exists, what it looks like and who remains buried there - perhaps the elusive headstone remains

    TD
     
  4. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96


    Willkommen im Forum,
    really interesting story,
    Stefan.
     
  5. MTG

    MTG Member

    Cheers. Here's a link that was shared earlier in the thread. If I'm reading this correctly, 190 POWs were buried there but most were returned to their homelands after the war. Today there are still 86 burials but no mention of any British.

    I just sent an email off to the folks at Sandbostel along with the image that has the gravestones in it. Maybe they can identify the location for us. I will report back as soon as I hear from them.
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    If it works then you might be able to directly tie the photos to an actual place which will help solve a part of your question

    TD
     
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Allied casualties were usually buried locally to where they died but postwar agreements between the British and West German governments led to the establishment of concentrated cemeteries within Germany such as that at Becklingen near Soltau south of Hamburg where the Parnewinkel burial were transferred. At the same time the German Military Cemetery at Cannock Chase was inaugurated in 1967 as a result of this agreement and German war dead of both world war were transferred here. However for some unknown reason.a number still lie in their original burial plots in location such as Scampton and North Coates churchyards.

    From what I have ascertained there are very few British dead lying out of concentrated cemeteries....the most famous one being Brigadier Nicholson,the defender of Calais who died as a POW and lies in a German churchyard as wished by his family.

    From Bill Chorley references to Bomber Command losses of 1941

    Looking at Halifax L9530 of No 76 Squadron ex Middle St George, (now Teeside Airport) which was downed by flak when involved in an operation to Berlin...loss on outbound or homebound leg unknown but the returning POWs would have been debrief on the loss of their aircraft. The two gunners Sgt A T Niven and F/S W Woods remains were transferred to Becklingen British Military Cemetery in accordance with the bilateral agreement. The pilot was Chris Cheshire, brother of Lenard Cheshire VC who became CO of No 76 Squadron and later became the Station Commander at Holme on Spalding Moor.

    Wellington Z8835 of No 115 Squadron ex Marham was involved in an operation to Essen, all crew dead, outbound or homebound leg unknown. All crew now buried at Becklingen Military Cemetery,Soltau with the exception of the Second Pilot, Sgt R Keighley who has no known grave and is remembered on the Runnymede Memorial.....Initial resting place of those who have a known grave not recorded which would have been ascertained by the RAF authorities and recorded elsewhere.

    Incidentally Becklingen Military Cemetery is the burial place of the last VC of the war ,Guardsman Eddie Charlton who was killed in action on 21 April 1945

    Casualty Details | CWGC

    Visited the cemetery in 1992 on a German holiday and visited Guardsman Charlton;s grave among others.. pleasant cemetery built on a slight slope as I remember.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
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  8. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Edit - it has now been established that the funeral took place in June 1941 and not August, so the following is irrelevant to the photos


    On 13 August 1941 two aircraft were lost close to Sandbostel and the burials took place in Lagerfriedhof Parnewinkel - I checked all re-burials at Becklingen for personnel that died in August 1941 and these were the only ones that were brought in from that cemetery

    Wellington Z8835 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database]

    Halifax I L9530 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database]

    The attached CWGC page shows the names of the airmen that were identified at the time (the unknown airmen were identified prior to their post-war re-burial at Becklingen War Cemetery - the crash reports have their details)
     

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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    DaveB

    That's an interesting document which shows the reburials taking place as early as 18 December 1946 at Becklingen (the start of the harsh winter of 1946/1947).the British occupation authorities must have made the decision to locate a concentrated cemetery there as occupiers since there was not a West German government until the German Federal Republic was formed in May 1949.
     
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  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Haake to Hardy - Royal Canadian Air Force Association

    HARDESTY, GILBERT PETER MALLON FS(P) R59562. From Winnipeg, Manitoba. Killed in Action Jan 15/42 age 21. #103 Squadron (Noli Me Tangere). BROTHER to Benedict Joseph Hardesty. Wellington #R 1395 was shot down near Parnewinkel, Bremervorde, Germany. Sgts J.S. Dainton (RAF), A. Stockdale (RAF), A.B. Thomas (RAF), and FS. E. Twelves (RAF) were also killed. Flight Sergeant Pilot Hardesty was buried at Parnewinkel, exhumed, and reburied in the Becklingen War Cemetery, Soltau, Germany.

    TD

    John S Dainton and crew 103 Sqn
    Thought to have been hit by Flak of 3 Flak Div (Wellington on road Appel-Hollenstedt near Buchholz at 23:34) Victory credited by OKL to 3 Flak Div 15 July 1943. Crashed Parnewinkel, 10 km SSE Bremervörde

    MTG was your grandfather ever in the Flak Div mentioned??
     
  11. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    crashplace Wellington R1395
     
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  12. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Some pictures of Becklingen CWGC cemetery taken in 2015, the last time I visited. DSC_6188.jpg DSC_6202.jpg DSC_6187.jpg
     
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  13. MTG

    MTG Member

    Alas, he was not part of the 3 Flak Division as far as I can tell from his service records. At the time in question, he was a Gruppenleiter at the Munitions depot in nearby Hesedorf.

    I did get an email response from a researcher at Sandpostel!
    I showed him the picture of the honor guard with the gravestones. He doesn't think it was the cemetery at Sandbostel because they didn't have those types of gravestones. He also doesn't think it was Parnewinkel because that cemetery had a different scenic makeup and had mostly wooden crosses (he provided an image of this). He does concede that there was a different part of the cemetery not depicted in the picture but again stressed that it doesn't match with the burial in our images.
    He did report a burial of a RAF bomber crew from August 15, 1941. Identified are Porthous, Woods, and Niven. There were four additional burials but the names are unknown. He also threw out a suggestion of a burial at a cemetery by Bevern.

    This email just came to me so I have yet to dig into any of the provided information but I wanted to pass it along to the collective group. Cheers all.
     
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  14. MTG

    MTG Member

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  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Wellington Z8835 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database] might also fit the same bill

    TD

    Burials at Parnewinkel,

    Wellington Z8835
    In a paper from Luftgaukommando XI to Dulag Luft, Oberursel, are listed two
    Vickers Wellington at that date:
    12/13.8.1941 00.49 Grafel northern from Zeven, cause Nightfighter. Crew dead
    12/13.8.1941 02.50 between Hohentann and Rübke (near Buxtehude), cause Flak
    Crew dead.
    It could also be that Wellington Z8835 crashed at Buxtehude. I have two Telegramms
    from FL H KDTR Stade to Luftgaukommando XI about the crashplace Buxtehude,
    but there is no mention of the number of the aircraft.
     
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  16. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    compiled data so far:
    NIVEN (1325203) and WOODS (531299)
    Halifax L3950, 76 Sqn, shot down shot down by Flak in the night from 12./13.8.1941
    coned by 2. & 3./Res. Flakscheinw. Abt. 150, 2. & 3./Res. Flakscheinw. Abt. 608 and 1. & 2./Res. Flakscheinw. Abt. 609,
    hit by 3./Res. Flak Abt. 341 and 2. & 3./Res. Flak Abt. 247,
    crashed near Buxtehude, Ostmoor, Am grünen Weg at 01.24 - 02.30 hrs
    see also:
    https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5a3...4d2af6_NJCATheEarlyYearsPart2samplepages1.pdf
    Flak-Schutz im Großraum Bremen

    PORTHOUSE (937567)
    Wellington Z8835, 115Sqn. Shot down by night fighter in the night from 12./13.8.1941 at 3.20 at Junkerkanal between Hohentann and Ruebke near Buxtehude.
    Wellington Z8835 - Page 2
     
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  17. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Sigh....there you are, living in a country that literally celebrates over-administration, evaluating primary sources - and still finding only a mess-up!!!

    edited - nonsense

    115 Sqn Wellington Z8835: coned by 3./Res. Flakscheinw. Abt. 608 and hit by 1. & 2./Res. Flak Abt. 601, crashed twixt Rübke and Hohentannen (Ostmoor) at 02.52 hrs.

    both Flak kills confirmed by
    Abschüsse alliierter Flugzeuge.- Anträge auf Anerkennung mit Gefechtsberichten, Zeugenaussagen, Stellungnahmen der vorgesetzten Dienststellen
    (Shooting down of Allied aircraft - applications for recognition with combat reports, testimonies, statements by the superior authorities.)
    BA/MA RL 19/463

    Wellington Z8835 is also attributed to Fw Ernst Kalinowski II./NJG1 in some sources
    However, I assume that GRAFEL could be a transmission error, and that GRAFELD (10km NE Lingen) is meant instead.
    At least that's stated in the shooting report who mentioned: 1km SSW GRAFELD, 00.49h
    source: Luftwaffe Night Fighter Combat Claims, 1939-1945

    Grafel, in turn, was also mistakenly mentioned for Wellington R1341, 9 Sqn RAF (see post 51)
    However, I have not yet been able to find any mention of a crash for this location anywhere in the primary sources...phew.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
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  18. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

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  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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  20. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

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