Royal Marines rifles

Discussion in 'Commandos & Royal Marines' started by Kellard, May 6, 2017.

  1. Kellard

    Kellard Active Member

    Just a short note regarding the rifles used by the Corps during WW2.

    The standard rifle was the SMLE and it's No3 variant later supplemented by the No4 Rifle. However until 1941 the Enfield P14 and .303" Canadian Ross Rifles were often used for training.

    RM Commandos used either the No4 (or No5 Rifle from 1944 onward). On D-Day many Marines who's landing craft were sunk used captured weapons including the MG42 MG and KAR 98 Rifle for several days after the initial landing.

    Royal Marines Snipers in the Infantry Battalions used the P14 until 1945 when the remaining Bn snipers were issued with the No4 Mk1T.

    Royal Marines serving with artillery and support units of the MDBDO in Crete had there Enfields withdrawn and replaced by Ross Rifles from RN stocks.

    The standard rifle of the Royal Marines Engineers (not RM Engineer Commando) in Europe, 19th Bn Royal Marines (formerly The Auxiliary Bn) and The RM Siege Regiment, remained the Enfield P14 until the end of the war.

    In the Far East the No3 and SMLE lasted longer although Commando units were equipped with the No4 and No5 and rarely the M1 Carbine. During the Second World war there was no large issue of the M1 Garand top the Royal Marines as I have seen mentioned here before.
     
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  2. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    I'm going entirely from memory here, so will await correction.:)

    As I recall one of the Army Commandos, possibly No.6, was issued with US M1 rifles for Torch, to ease logistical issues. The legend is they never gave the M1 rifles up, which has perhaps become the basis for thoughts of a larger issue of M1 rifles to Commando units. If the No.6 Cdo account is accurate, I wonder how they were able to continue to access 30.06 ammunition?

    The July 1945 WE for a Commando (Light) did actually give an issue of 40 M1 rifles with grenade launchers, and while standard rifles are not detailed all other weapons mentioned are normal British models (including Mk1 (T) for snipers).

    Gary
     
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  3. Kellard

    Kellard Active Member

    Gary,
    Perhaps they were able to source the 30-06 ammunition from the same sources as the turret mounted Browning M1919 Machine Guns used by some RAC armoured vehicles and also by some landing craft.
     
  4. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Yes, there was plenty of need for .30-cal MGs, I suppose it's more accurate to say the unique 8-round enbloc clips used in the M1 are what I wonder about. I don't know if those were something that could be retrieved and recycled, and if so how many times they could be reused.

    Drifting off from your original thread I know, but it would be interesting to see if the legendary Commando M1 rifles were kept for a limited time and on a limited scale as parts and supplies dried up.

    Gary
     
  5. Kellard

    Kellard Active Member

    Does it specify M1 Rifles or M1 Carbines? Because the M1 Carbine was widely used, whereas I have no recollection of reading about the M1 Garand being used even as a grenade launcher since they were already available for SMLE .303" Rifles albeit of an older and slightly less effective type .
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  6. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Right, the actual wording 'Rifles, Garand...40' and 'Grenade launchers, Mk8 (for Garand rifles)...40'. But I thought the M7 launcher was for the M1 rifle and the M8 launcher for the M1 carbine, so does Mk8 mean M8 or another piece of kit entirely?

    Found a couple of refs to Army Cdos with the M1 rifle, namely No.1 and No.6. Both landed for Torch alongside the US 34th Inf Div, and there's at least one ref that the Commandos were supposed to be armed and attired as GIs so as not to 'kick off' with the Vichy French, who it was hoped would surrender to US troops but may be less forgiving with British on the back of the destruction of the French fleet.

    No.6 Cdo fought in Sicily after North Africa, then back to the UK and over to France in June44. That's what intrigues me, whether they kept M1s in the Med, and quietly switched back to SMLEs back in the UK, or somehow kept M1s right through NWE.

    No.1 Cdo went over to India and there is a quote from their CO about the use of M1 rifles in the Far East. I also found a claim re 44 (RM) Cdo having M1s, but this might be right at the end of the war in Burma, and they were brigaded with No.1 Cdo at the time.

    http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=293677

    [TMP] "Brigadier Peter Young" Topic

    Particular attention to the posts by Jemima Fawr (don't let the username fool you, he was a very knowledgeable post on TMP, and had a particular interest in the Burma campaign).

    Occurs to me I'm not helping much am I?

    Gary
     
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  7. Kellard

    Kellard Active Member

    I know that some of the Army Commandos wore US equipment and that some were equipped with US weapons but I have seen little firm information about it, even when I worked at the MOD history section. I have my doubts that they would have retained much or any of it later when not operating as part of a larger US operation as resupply would have been very difficult.

    I'm fairly certain that the RM Commandos did not re-equip with the M1 Rifle in Burma or anywhere else (until Korea).

    The supply of 30-06" ammunition could be difficult, in Burma they didn't even use the Browning M1919 on landing craft. In Burma in which there were few if any US forces and those in the Pacific and Europe were many thousands of miles away, clips for the M1 Garand would have been almost impossible to obtain. and no one was going to make an effort to create a special supply line for a limited number of weapons to a small unit in a remote theatre.
     
  8. Kellard

    Kellard Active Member

    With regard to 44 Commando certainly they were still using the No4 when this photo was taken in March 44

    Returning from Alethangyaw, Burma, March 1944 [2]

    I've seen 2 photos of Royals of 44 Cdo using the M1, supposedly in Burma but the same pictures are also described as 41 Independent Commando in Korea which judging by the uniforms and background seem more likely
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017

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