Royal Engineers Jeep

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Paulamorgan, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    Hi,

    Looking to mark up my Jeep as one used by the RE. Done the usual google search but to no avail are there any pictures........any ideas guys?

    Best regards

    Paul
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

  3. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    What is it that you're looking for Paul ? Royal Engineers used a cobalt blue background for their Arm of Service markings.

    Which period are you going for ? (NW Europe 1944 / 45 ?). If so, then I'd suggest looking at the 'Trux' 21st Army Group Order of battle in the forum menu and choosing the level which you'd like to portray - Anything from HQ 21st Army Group down to Field Company at Division level had distinguishing markings.

    I'll do my best to look something up.
     
  5. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    What is it that you're looking for Paul ? Royal Engineers used a cobalt blue background for their Arm of Service markings.

    Which period are you going for ? (NW Europe 1944 / 45 ?). If so, then I'd suggest looking at the 'Trux' 21st Army Group Order of battle in the forum menu and choosing the level which you'd like to portray - Anything from HQ 21st Army Group down to Field Company at Division level had distinguishing markings.

    I'll do my best to look something up.

    Rich,

    Sorry I am new to British units and I am really starting from scratch so that is why I appear thick at times.

    Ideally just markings for a bog standard jeep attached to 576th corps field park RE's XIII corps......does this make sense? if they had any markings at all?? ie markings (badges/numbers) on windscreen and bumpers.

    Or as I display at the D-Day Museum Southsea any field/field Park unit appropriate to the Normandy invasion.

    Just would like to see some pictures as reference as I cant find any anywhere!

    Confused???

    Cheers

    Paul
     
  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Paul, try 'Googling' "British Arm of Service markings" and "Formation Signs" You should find something.

    Are you intending to 'do' XIII Corps in Italy ?

    The Corps Formation Sign was a red gazelle on a white circle on a red diamond with a white border. Corps RE would have carried this marking back and front.

    Royal Engineers vehicles carried their Arm of Service Marking on a cobalt blue background. According to Hodges & Taylor, the Corps Field Park Companies (including 576) in 15th Army Group as@ 30/11/43 wore the AoS number '76' In order to indicate Corps troops, this marking would have had a white bar above it.

    If you're stuck for illustrations, have a look at the BEF markings thread :-
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/8586-bef-1940-vehicle-markings.html
    You won't find the correct ones there but you'll see the style and format.

    It's meant to be confusing by the way. It was changed regularly to keep Jerry guessing.
     
  7. GPRegt

    GPRegt Senior Member

    Paul

    I can help with Normandy Invasion.

    3rd Infantry Division - Black triangle with inverted red triangle inside
    15th Field Park Coy RE - white 48 on cobalt blue square

    Do you have dimensions/positions of markings?

    Steve W.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    These may help:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    CL1 likes this.
  10. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Paul

    This is the one on display at the Imperial War Museum

    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    Paul

    I can help with Normandy Invasion.

    3rd Infantry Division - Black triangle with inverted red triangle inside
    15th Field Park Coy RE - white 48 on cobalt blue square

    This is brilliant information, great !!

    Do you have dimensions/positions of markings?

    At the present "no" Im guessing on the windscreen below the glass one either side and on the bumpers at the rear??? Front bumper: would that have unit numbers???

    Cheers

    Paul

    Steve W.

    :D
     
  12. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    Paul, try 'Googling' "British Arm of Service markings" and "Formation Signs" You should find something.

    Are you intending to 'do' XIII Corps in Italy ?

    The Corps Formation Sign was a red gazelle on a white circle on a red diamond with a white border. Corps RE would have carried this marking back and front.

    Royal Engineers vehicles carried their Arm of Service Marking on a cobalt blue background. According to Hodges & Taylor, the Corps Field Park Companies (including 576) in 15th Army Group as@ 30/11/43 wore the AoS number '76' In order to indicate Corps troops, this marking would have had a white bar above it.

    If you're stuck for illustrations, have a look at the BEF markings thread :-
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/8586-bef-1940-vehicle-markings.html
    You won't find the correct ones there but you'll see the style and format.

    It's meant to be confusing by the way. It was changed regularly to keep Jerry guessing.

    More great information!!! Stupid question time, 15th Army Group, im guessing different badge to XIII corps badge? Dont hate me im learning!!!:blush:

    Cheers

    paul
     
  13. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    These may help:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So would a Jeep have a M before the bonnet number as I see the lorry has a L ?. Did all vehicles have dectector paint painted in that way like a splodge!

    Cheers

    Paul
     
  14. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The custom with British Forces was that an independently operating unit would have a 'Formation Sign'. In most cases this was the division but there were also independent brigades. The components of higher formations such as Corps carried Corps insignia and those working at army level would have displayed the 15th Army badge.

    However, 576 Field Park were clearly a Corps Field Park and thus would have shown the corps formation sign. They were part of 15th Army but operated as part of XIII Corps.

    I'd seriously recommend getting hold of a good primer such as George Forty's "British Army Handbook" and reading it in bed every night for a week or so. It will give you the background info that you need in order to understand these things (and you do need to have an understanding).
    forty - british army handbook - AbeBooks
     
  15. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    The custom with British Forces was that an independently operating unit would have a 'Formation Sign'. In most cases this was the division but there were also independent brigades. The components of higher formations such as Corps carried Corps insignia and those working at army level would have displayed the 15th Army badge.

    However, 576 Field Park were clearly a Corps Field Park and thus would have shown the corps formation sign. They were part of 15th Army but operated as part of XIII Corps.

    I'd seriously recommend getting hold of a good primer such as George Forty's "British Army Handbook" and reading it in bed every night for a week or so. It will give you the background info that you need in order to understand these things (and you do need to have an understanding).
    forty - british army handbook - AbeBooks

    Rich,

    I can tell you all the ins and outs of a gnats A*se about the Royal Navy, boy the army is confusing, anyway thanks for the intel, ill get that book ordered ready for my holiday reading in the next couple of weeks and will report back. I work alongside RAMC 33 Fld Hospital so may have to pay them a visit as well.

    Thanks again

    Paul
     
  16. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Paul, I'm sure that the Senior Service is even more confusing. It's had longer to become complicated !

    The Forty book is a handy and inexpensive one for when those odd questions pop up about how things fit together and as an author who knows his stuff, he's far more trustworthy than the likes of me.

    I started out with a vehicle which carried markings that I needed to identify so I almost had to 'reverse engineer' in order to work out its story. I've learned that one can't have too much information to avoid jumping to conclusions (it still happens but I'm less disappointed when the facts stop fitting the assumptions !)

    It's a shame that the modern British army, as a result of moves to integrate the TA and in view of the 1970s Irish terrorist threat, stopped displaying unit signs. We're just not used to seeing them any more.

    Do you have access to listings of wartime RN vehicle registration numbers ? That would be something worth locating !
     
  17. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    Do you have access to listings of wartime RN vehicle registration numbers ? That would be something worth locating !

    Sorry no, My Naval service/experience is from the 1980s early 90's but have you tried Welcome to HMVF - Historic Military Vehicles Forum I believe there are a couple of threads going on about RN vehicles at the moment. I could most likely get you the contact details for the RN Historic Branch which is in HMNB Portsmouth when I go back to work next week if that would help.

    Regards

    Paul
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers Paul, I'm a regular on HMVF (and MLU and WM20) ! My interest in the RN serials is more to do with tracing the production output of the motorcycle factories and so far their numbers, together with those of the RAF, have defeated far more serious students than me.

    It's probably no coincidence that for both those services, land vehicles are much less glamorous than the floating or flying equipment.
     
  19. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    You can view the XIII Corps Formation sign here :-

    Old Soldiers' Home • Trieste Historical Perspective

    This is the rear plate of my Norton which carried Royal Engineers markings. The colour is the closest that I can make to the original 'cobalt blue'.

    [​IMG]

    If you imagine a white '76' applied together with a white band along the top edge then you'll see what 576 Fd Pk should have been displaying.

    I'd recommend a talk with Axholme signs (he advertises on HMVF) He can make you stencils and has a pretty good idea of what's needed.
     
  20. Paulamorgan

    Paulamorgan Member

    Rich,

    Thanks for that, I am BIGREDONE on HMVF, as I had an interest in the 1st Infantry Div US Army and for no other reason! Dont suppose you took part in A&E as one of the dispatch riders? what a job they did....outstanding! really gave you the feel of what it would have been like travelling in a convoy with the tanks up front and the bike riders buzzing in and out. Re axle he done my 60mm mortar round stencils for me....small world.

    Cheers

    Paul
     

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