Rouen August 1944.

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Owen, Jun 12, 2006.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Looking around for info on the battle between captuered Panthers and German Tigers that supposedly happened around Rouen.
    Couldn't find that yet but some excellent post-battle pictures of Rouen here.
    http://virtedit.free.fr/page_01.htm
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Blimey!
    What a mess.
     
  3. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Not heard of that one, Owen. What's your source for it? Would be most interested to know more!
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Paul here is where I read of it.
    From http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm

    Quote:
    Small number of captured Panthers was also pressed into service by British (e.g. Ausf G "Cuckoo" from 4th Battalion of 6th Coldstream Guards Tank Brigade, North-West Europe, 1944/45), Canadian, French and American units and three were used by the Polish Home Army during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944, against its former owners. Also small number was captured and operated by the French resistance in mid 1944. They took part in fighting in the Rouen area, where two of them were destroyed on August 30th of 1944 by Tigers from sSSPzAbt 102. This was probably the most interesting combat situation involving Panthers.
     
  5. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Thanks for that Owen; I will have a look at the unit histories I have and might look into this at TNA sometime.
     
  6. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Owen - just found this, which puts the event at Overloon:

    http://www.twenot.nl/cuckoo.htm

    “Cuckoo”, a Panther G in British service

    By T.J.M. Schers, The Netherlands

    In the aftermath of the failed Arnhem offensive the British 6th Guards Tank Brigade was engaged in heavy fighting to gain control of the small Dutch village called Overloon. It was during these fierce battles that tankers of the 4th Armoured Battalion - Coldstream Guards, one of the 2 tank battalions in the brigade, entered a large barn, only to find a Panther tank of the PanzerAbteiling 2, Panzer Brigade 107.

    After some adjustments were made to the appearance of the vehicle (more about that later) this Panther was used to help the artillery barrage on the Geijsteren castle, just north of Venlo, on the Meuse River. The tank was christened “Cuckoo”, which seems to be an appropriate name for such a strange “bird”

    In the artillery bombardment on the castle, Cuckoo proved to be a worthy newcomer. After an infantry attack at the castle failed, the decision was made to bombard the castle with artillery. “ The 95mms were a great success, but “Cuckoo”, [………], did best of all, hurling its shells through selected windows with unfailing precision.”

    Later, during operation “Blackcock” (In an area to the south of Venlo) Cuckoo was deployed again, now to join in on an attack on the German town called Waldenrath. Cuckoo preformed very well again, it’s mobility was especially noticeable.

    The historian wrote; “The road conditions were abominable all day, but whereas the Churchill’s and the Crocodiles, with no ice bars, slid into ditches at every possible opportunity, “Cuckoo” the Panther, eight tons heavier, trundled merrily along with no difficulty at all.”


    The next theatre of operations for the 6th Guards Tank Brigade,and the Panther was during operation "Veritable", better known as the battles for the Reichswald. Here Cuckoo's career ended in a sorry way. When heading towards the east of Kleve in Germany the fuel pump broke down, and due to lack of a spare pump the tank had to be abandoned.

    http://www.twenot.nl/cuckoo.htm
     
  7. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Somewhat different story, as well!
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Regarding Operation Blackcock, It seems Pathe have some stock footage of 'Cuckoo' actually in action during blackcock, I can only find stills though, having trouble finding the actual film on Pathe's excellent site.

    Stills near the bottom of this page on a czech forum: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/40205, lots of other great Panther shots too.

    Pathe site:
    http://www.britishpathe.com/product_display.php?canisternumber=&sortnumber=&filmid=&szin=B&group=&decade=1940&date1=&date2=&date3=&datefrom=&dateto=&choice=all&description=german+tank&searchword=Enter+a+search+word+here&choice1=all&title=Enter+a+film+title+here&choice2=all&keywords=Enter+key+words+here&choice3=all&summary=Enter+a+summary+search+here&advanced.x=29&advanced.y=19
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    destroyed on August 30th of 1944 by Tigers from sSSPzAbt 102.

    Anyone know if that unit were at Rouen?
    Cuckoo would not have been anywhere near Rouen.
    I still think it was the French using the Panthers.
    Googled "french.resistance panther"........get loads of link to Clouseau and "Pink Panther".
    Did find one site about Battle for Paris, which I now can't find that says the Resistance used captured Panthers there too.
    Wish we had some French members!
    August 23 during various operations the French resistance captures several Opel Blitz,Panthers, B1 bis,and a Anti Aircaft gun.
    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57818&highlight=paris
     
  10. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Anyone know if that unit were at Rouen?
    Cuckoo would not have been anywhere near Rouen.
    I still think it was the French using the Panthers.
    Googled "french.resistance panther"........get loads of link to Clouseau and "Pink Panther".
    Did find one site about Battle for Paris, which I now can't find that says the Resistance used captured Panthers there too.
    Wish we had some French members!

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57818&highlight=paris

    Have you tried the Achtung Panzer website, there was a mention of Panthers and the resistance there. You might already be aware of it.
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    This site from my long-standing hunt for post-war panthers and spanish 88's has quite a few pics of french-marked Pz.V's, could be something useful to you on there? though a babelfish translation indicates that the only wartime capture shown, though present at Colmar(???) in Jan '45 didn't actually get the chance to engage the Germans.
    http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/panther.htm
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Might try some "then & now" type photos when I visit Rouen later this year.
     
  13. Bob Chandler

    Bob Chandler Junior Member

    Might try some "then & now" type photos when I visit Rouen later this year.

    Honestly couldn't believe the photos of Rouen when I saw them. Looked more like Ypres circa 1917. I too will be visiting the town later in the year and will now appreciate the extent of the reconstruction....such is war that you never get to hear so much about the people who rebuild the towns.

    Quick question: any idea if nearby LOUVIERS took the same punishment as Rouen and if there are any pictures? We're visiting there too as I understand that's where 12 Corps (including a relative of mine) crossed the Seine. I know VERNON suffered badly.

    Bob
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Can't find anything on Louviers, Bob.
    Was your relative with 15th Div?

    Good photo of the mess at Rouen here.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    and here.

    [​IMG]

    Oblique photographic-reconnaissance aerial taken the day after two daylight attacks by bombers of No. 2 Group on German transport amassed on quays by the River Seine at Rouen. Fires are still burning among dockside buildings and the quays on the east bank of the river are littered with debris and bomb craters

    26 August 1944 Photographer: No. 35 (PR) Wing RAF
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Kyt, found this but for some odd reason had trouble posting it.
    Found this interesting - mentions LOUVIERS:

    http://www.warlinks.com/armour/11_hu...11huss_44.html


    Also I've just lookied in Monty's Northern Legions by P.Delaforce Louviers gets one mention, re 15th (Scottish) Div.

    In was the one end of STAR Route, from Falaise to Louviers.
     
  17. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Owen - have you seen the Canadian battlefield guide which has a section on Rouen?
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Paul, yup. Good aerial views & maps.
     
  19. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Okay mate - just wanted to check.
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    This is one in a series of shots I've seen of the Canadians crossing the Seine.
    A similar photo is in that book Paul & I are discussing.


    Juno Beach Centre




    [​IMG]


    Vehicles of the 4th Canadian Armoured Division crossing pontoon bridge over the Seine River near Elbeuf, France, August 28th, 1944.

    Photo by Ken Bell. Department of National Defence / National Archives of Canada, PA-113662.


    Same place looking other way.

    [​IMG]


    The Vehicles of the 4th Canadian Armoured Division can be seen here crossing a pontoon bridge over the Seine river near Elbeuf, France, 28 August 1944.
    Photo National Archives of Canada PA-113662.
     

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