ROBERTS, Dorothy Florence Monica

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Mavis Williams, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone,
    I am researching a lady who was left off our local WW2 War Memorial, but I cannot find out how she died and the Christian name of her husband, any help would be appreciated.

    AIRCRAFTWOMAN 1ST CLASS
    DOROTHY FLORENCE MONICA ROBERTS
    Service Number: 2052724
    Regiment & Unit/Ship - Women's Auxiliary Air Force
    Date of Death
    Died 27 April 1942
    Age 42 years old

    Buried or commemorated at COLERNE (ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST) CHURCHYARD
    Grave 108.
    United Kingdom
    Country of Service - United Kingdom
    Additional Info - Wife of T. Roberts, of Hawarden, Flintshire.

    Personal Inscription - REST IN PEACE

    This is what I have found out, but need information on her husband, as I need to find her family.

    RAF Colerne - Wikipedia

    RAF Colerne from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Royal Air Force Colerne or more simply RAF Colerne is a former Royal Air Force station located on the outskirts of the village of Colerne in Wiltshire, in use from 1939 to 1976.


    Aircraftwoman 1st Class D F M ROBERTS (2052724), Women's Auxiliary Air Force) [Royal Air Force WW2 Casualty ]

    This page commemorates Aircraftwoman 1st Class Dorothy Florence Monica ROBERTS (2052724) of the Women's Auxiliary Air Force


    Circumstances of Death: Dorothy Florence Monica ROBERTS is one of the 6.23% of the airmen from the Second World War, whose cause of death is not known. Can you add details on how he died? Please contact us at admin ^ rafcommands.com to let us know.

    That being said, 93.77% of the airmen killed during WW2 now have a cause of death established. Search our Database to find out more!
    Death of Death 1942-04-27 Age : 42 years.

    Served in

    Burial/Commemoration Details : Grave 108. at Colerne (St. John The Baptist), United Kingdom (Map)

    Many thank for reading this and for any information that you may be able to pass on.
    Regards,
    Mavis Williams
     
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    There is this man
    John T Roberts
    1893–
    BIRTH ABT 1893 • Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales
    DEATH Unknown

    The 'T' could well be Tom

    as this is followed by a possible marriage
    Name: Tom Roberts
    Registration Date: Jul 1929
    [Aug 1929]
    [Sep 1929]
    Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration District: Epping
    Inferred County: Essex
    Spouse: Dorothy F M Dayly
    Volume Number: 4a
    Page Number: 1349

    This is the only Roberts marriage to someone with the initials Dorothy F M

    He may have changed his forenames around
    1911 England Census
    Name: Thomas John Roberts
    Age in 1911: 18
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
    Relation to Head: Visitor
    Gender: Male
    Birth Place: Festiniog
    Civil Parish: Chester
    Search Photos: Search for 'Chester' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
    County/Island: Cheshire
    Country: England
    Street Address: Ye Olde Hermitage Groves Chester
    Marital status: Single
    Occupation: Drapery Assistant Shop
    Registration District: Chester
    Registration District Number: 450
    Sub-registration District: Chester Castle
    ED, institution, or vessel: 10
    Piece: 21860

    You could apply for her service records, or for her marriage certificate to obtain some concrete details - the marriage cert would tell you her husbands name and date of birth plus probably his fathers name

    TD
     
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  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery


    AIRCRAFT WOMAN 1ST CLASSDOROTHY FLORENCE MONICA ROBERTS

    Service Number: 2052724
    Regiment & Unit/Ship
    Women's Auxiliary Air Force

    Date of Death
    Died 27 April 1942

    Age 42 years old

    Buried or commemorated at
    COLERNE (ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST) CHURCHYARD

    Grave 108.

    United Kingdom


    • Country of ServiceUnited Kingdom
    • Additional InfoWife of T. Roberts, of Hawarden, Flintshire.
    • Personal InscriptionREST IN PEACE

    [​IMG]

    https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2017/337/99700846_6963545b-e607-450b-9104-2728c116ac95.jpeg
     
  4. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you both so much and so quick! Is there nothing you don't know!! This forum is always rescuing me.
    Kindest regards, Mavis
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Lots

    TD
     
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  6. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi everyon,
     
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  7. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    have just received the Death Certificate for Dorothy Florence Monica ROBERTS, I am going to notify RAF Commands. Regards, Mavis
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Jagan

    Jagan Junior Member

    Many thanks - the record has been updated with the details and this link.
     
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  9. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I now have her marriage certificate, do you need that as well.
     
  10. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    I believe that Dorothy Florence Monica Roberts was living at Holderness in 1939, at 8, Chechester Row.

    1939 National Register – (Taken on the 29th September 1939)
    Roberts household (1 person)
    No 8 Chichester Row, Sproatley, Holderness R.D., Yorkshire (East Riding), England
    Dorothy F M Roberts 23 Feb 1897 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 12 1
    Ref: RG101/3201F/002/37 Letter Code: JCIS
    © Findmypast Ltd

    Was there an R.A.F. Camp there at that time, could Tom, her husband have been stationed there?

    This is their marriage:-
    Register Office, Epping, Essex.

    12th August 1929 Tom ROBERTS, 32, Bachelor, Sergeant Royal Air Force, Royal Air Force, North Weald, Bassett, William Thomas ROBERTS, Moulder & Dorothy Florence Monica DAYLY, 32, Spinster, York Cottage, North Weald, Bassett, John DAYLY (Deceased), Music Teacher. By Licence.

    Witnesses:- R. RILEY & H.M. THORNICROFT
     
  11. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Active Member

    Hello,

    A George Riley used to live opposite the Bluebell Inn in Sproatley. This link should afford a view of the terrace on the left, which I think was called Chichester Row, after the Chichester-Constables:

    File:Sproatley - geograph.org.uk - 600270.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

    George would have been of very similar age to Dorothy, so perhaps a sibling? I had thought he was a Great War veteran, but perhaps not, according to the War Memorial:

    Sproatley First World War Memorial & Roll of Honour. - War Memorials Online
    Roll of Honour - Yorkshire - Sproatley

    which lists another Riley.

    I can still picture George supping a pint of mild in the bar with his flat cap on.

    Sproatley has no real RAF association, although Vulcan crews often seemed to use the lake at Burton Constable Hall as a waypoint when practising low level runs on the range at Cowden. Some of the ponds in local fields were attributed to stray Luftwaffe bombs from the blitz on Hull. Mrs Eveline Cardwell, a farmer’s wife, was awarded a BEM for taking Junker 88 pilot Hptn Karl Rohloff (KG 4) prisoner on 8 July 1940 at East Carlton Farm a couple of miles away near Aldbrough.
     
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  12. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Active Member

    Thanks. For some reason I had associated the shop beside the Constable Arms with the Rileys, but an old photo would suggest the Smiths:
    upload_2021-2-11_9-31-41.jpeg

    I didn’t go to the Endowed School, but have some annotated photos of the soccer team 56-57 etc, when May could have taught, but no Rileys.

    I hadn’t twigged before that the village seemed to have been spared direct fatalities in WW2. I do recall once helping a chap called George C who had collapsed from a recurrence of malaria (ex Far East PW - rough time) near what was Garthwaite’s. Will keep an eye open for your history - a relative can get me it for a Christmas present, whenever. Best Lincolnshire sausages ever came from Nutts!
     
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  13. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hello James and Quarterfinal, Thanks for getting in touch, and for the information re the R.A.F. stations around Sproatley, that is good news, so Sgt.Tom Roberts could have been in one of the camps on the day that Dorothy Florence Monica Roberts answered the 1939 National Register questions. However the marriage was in the District of Epping in Essex in 1929, so unless they were all pals and moved with Tom & Dorothy to Sproatley, it may be that the names are just co-incidental. What are your thoughts? Thanks so much again, Regards, Mavis
     
  14. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Active Member

    Hello All,

    My thoughts would be to focus for a while on the husband - Thomas - and see if you can follow his service, which may then give better insight on Dorothy. I note her death certificate says she was 41, whereas the CWGC headstone reflects 42. The National Register - if it’s the right - gives Dorothy a DOB in Feb 1897, which chimes better with the age given on marriage. The marriage certificate attributes Tom Roberts as RAF and the death certificate supports a husband with a RAF association; was he at RAF Sealand and Hawarden listed as a generic alternative? Tracking his career might explain why Sproatley. Presuming no children, she might have followed his postings. Taking a hiring in Sproatley would have been safer than Hull and if there was a local Riley link, that might make sense. The nearest RAF unit could have been the searchlight entity at Sutton on Hull, about 4 miles or 30 minutes bike ride away, when and if a serviceman could get a leave pass. Looking at Cowden again, it seems it had an Army range association at that time. He could have been at Catfoss, Leconfield or quite a few other stations in the Riding, even Bridlington with a marine branch and other options. Perhaps she had to be under 40 to join the WAAF, or to open up trades which could enable a scope for movement, if an intent was to try to be closer to the spouse? Unless you get a really lucky break, getting more granularity on the husband’s records might give greater sense to other events. Good luck, anyway.
     
  15. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hello James, Thanks for your reply. Dorothy's Maiden name was DAYLY as on her marriage cert.:-
    This is their marriage:-
    Register Office, Epping, Essex.

    12th August 1929 Tom ROBERTS, 32, Bachelor, Sergeant Royal Air Force, Royal Air Force, North Weald, Bassett, William Thomas ROBERTS, Moulder & Dorothy Florence Monica DAYLY, 32, Spinster, York Cottage, North Weald, Bassett, John DAYLY (Deceased), Music Teacher. By Licence.

    Witnesses:- R. RILEY & H.M. THORNICROFT

    Regards, Mavis
     
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  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Evenin',
    At James's very polite request I've removed his posts here as he felt he'd added confusion.
    No worries. Clarity will doubtless emerge!
     
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  17. JamesR

    JamesR Member

    Hello Mavis I think I may have added a bit of confusion with my posts so I have started again and put everything in one post. This is what I have been told by 5 children and 1 lady ex Bletchley Park and WAAF. Their was a lady who lived in 8 Constable Row from around 1939 to 1941 and then my Auntie rented the house from 1941. Their was a gentleman by the name Mr Roberts who lived in the village and my Auntie believes he was high up in the military and possibly an officer. Regarding the wedding witness there is 3 possible people Robert Reed Riley Rosa Redecca Riley and Robert H Riley. The military camps in the area were Sutton near Hull, Leconfield near Beverley, Carnaby Airfield Near Bridlington, Cowden Near Hornsea, Catfoss Airfield Near Bewholme and Burton Constable Hall had military for 18 months from around 1940 with 3 search light camps within the fields around Sproatley. I believe it is likely that she followed her husband and rented the house which was owned by the Chichester Constables who also owned Burton Constable Hall. Sorry I cannot find out anymore information but if in the future you do find Tom Roberts service records and it shows he was posted in the area and more information about Dorothy would it be possible to message me information for my research..
     
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  18. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks James, It is a very confusing, Dorothy was married in 1929 in Essex, to a husband Sgt. Tom ROBERTS of the R.A.F., from Hawarden, Flintshire, North Wales.then I think I found her in Sproatley, Holderness in 1939, eventually she was buried in Wiltshire. I need some proof of her husband as well as her family history. Very big brick wall, never mind I will keep on looking and if I find anything I will let you know.
     
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  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Mavis


    Do you have her service records I know its a long haul but might give you more info.
    I would also add dont get dragged into where she/he lived at the time

    When my dad was called up in 1940 he was living in London but signed up in South Wales


    regards
    Clive
     
  20. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi Clive, No that's the trouble, I can find nothing about her except when I purchased her death and marriage certificates, which told me that Tom ROBERTS was a Sergeant and his address was the R.A.F.camp. Regards, Mavis
     

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