Researching Dad in East Lancs Reg & RASC

Hello everyone, I am new to this site and I am looking for help/guidance in tracing the movements of my late father during the Second World War, both at home and particularly his posting overseas to North Africa, Sicily and finally Italy. I have his Soldiers Service and Pay Book, plus I have obtained documents from his service file via the Army Personnel Centre in Glasgow. Unfortunately this generates more questions than answers – it is very limited information and part of the difficulty for a non-soldier is in understanding the abbreviations in the files. What I need to do now is try and research the unit histories that my father was posted to, in order to discover where he was at any particular time.

His name was Albert Warwick, British Army no. T/3389501 born in Rochdale, Lancashire and finished the war as a driver General Transport 41 Company Royal Army Service Corps (RASC), from October 1945 to discharge in March 1946. However he enlisted 15/03/1940 as a private in the East Lancashire Regiment. Initial training was at Squires Gate, Blackpool. After training he was posted to the 5th battalion 12/06/1940. His next posting record is to the 30th Battalion (of what it doesn't say) on 31/03/1943. The records say he received a fractured pelvis injury 19/12/1941. This must have kept him away from duties for some considerable time. The records in fact state he was posted to 'YB' 10/01/1942. I have no idea what YB refers to.

Eventually he was sent out to the Middle East, according to the details, via North Africa 13/09/1943. I remember from conversations and photos that he spent time in North Africa, Sicily and Italy. He never mentioned the Middle East unless this is army speak for Italy etc. In fact he returned to the UK in 1946 from Milan. Again the records help by mentioning a posting to the 72 Tipper Company RASC in October 1943 where he stayed until moving to 41 Company two years later.

Can anyone help please by directing me to where I can find details of the various units mentioned above, particularly RASC units, during the dates mentioned. Or alternatively, suggest other contact sources. I would love to know as well what divisions his units were attached to. Any guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Dave
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There will be unit war diaries for all these units at the National Archives at Kew in London. None of those for WW2 are online, so it means a visit I'm afraid.

 

Dave W53 -
as Paul says - the best thing is to get down to Kew and search the regimantal diaries - but until then - you should start to think like a company clerk - constanly harrassed - cigarette stub in the corner of his mouth - tea spilling all over his work - being yelled at - etc - Then sort it all out by date order as your message is all over the place - so let's get it organised here -

Enlisted in E Lancs regt - March '40 -training unit until posted to -

5th batt - June 41 - after the Dunkirk reorganisation -

Pelvic accident Dec '41 - this was a serious injury in those days -

Posted to 30th batt (East Lancs) - service unit for all kinds of people reinforcements etc Jan '42 ( two monthhs after accident - so they are not sure )

Posted to 'YB' - special reserve for injured - permanemt sick etc -Mar '43 ( now they are sure - not fit for active service in the field )

MEF (Italy) via BNAF ( North Africa) Sep '43 after the Invasion and possible guard duties here and there.

Still not 100% fit so transferred to RASC for driver duties- Oct '43

Demob via MIlan - obviously by train - Geneva - Dijon - Paris - Boulogne - Dover 1946

Cheers - and good luck ...

 

Thanks for that information Paul, looks like I need to head south.

Tom, thanks for sorting the dates out and clarifying some of the detail. Your right it was a bit of a mess, I kind of rushed the initial posting.

I have rechecked all the paperwork and realise that he was posted to the 30th batt in July '42 then transferred to RASC March '43. Other details are as first posted.

Regarding the injury. Before it my father was graded medically A1. But 5 months after the injury was graded B7. He was checked twice later in Sept. '42 and Jan. '43, both times graded B2.

Thanks again both for your help.

 

David -
not too surprised about your Father's medical grades as in those days - the orthopedic surgery was not as it is to-day and to break a pelvic bone was akin to a tragedy - not so to-day as I had both hip joints replaced just two years ago and I was in hospital overnight for the one and two days for the other - now I can a stand and walk upright again - with no pain anywhere !
Cheers

 

Continuing this request for help I have attached a couple of images scanned from his documents. I have several questions.

1. Can anyone help interpret/translate these into information that will help a layman?

2. Is there a reason why he transferred to RASC buried in the ACI and Authority details?

3. 11/03/43 Posted to No1. (can't read this) Bn RASC?

4. 633 DivComp Coy on 11/06/43 - what is this likely to be?

5. Draft RTHAM 13/09/43 - is this a reference to Middle East embarkation?

6. Posted to XIV List 14/09/43 - what is this likely to be?

7. Posted to X(II) List 09/11/43 - what is this likely to be?

8. Are there any other questions I should have asked?

Thanks in anticipation of your help.

 

I may have an answer to Point no 7 (Posted to X(II) List).

There is an entry in the war diary of my Father's unit concerning an officer. I have attached a copy and you should look at the entries for the 1st and 10th June.

As you can see, it relates to being admitted to Hospital (posted to X(II) list and discharged from hospital (from X(II) list).

 

Dave -
before you get aggravated by the ineffiency of those records bear in mind some of the conditions in which they were made up - I have seen worse examples - still doesn't excuse them - but the original advice still holds true - check the unit diaries at Kew - that will solve many of the problems - but not necessarily give you verse and chapter as to where your Father actually served - My Regimental movements are full of code name no longer traceable !

about the only recognisable thing to me is the RTHAM - which is merely the code for embarkation -this changed with every sailing - without that legend on your kit and pass - you didn't get on the Troopship !

Many company clerks were overworked and they took shortcuts - many others were lazy - and made up stuff like M-F which is short for MEF - Middle East Force - but in actual fact he was not in MEF(Egypt) but really CMF which was Central Mediterrean Force ( Italy).

Much of the other hyrogliphics are merely Army record numbers for reference as to who issued the order for transfer etc - the other numbers X1V and X are probably medical states as he progressd from one to the other - he finished up fairly well as he was then put on the reserve Z(T)at demob or "Class "A" release": - which meant that we were liable to recall until the 50th birthday. Millions were on that Reserve- and they didn't lose records in those day as they appear to do to-day with all their fancy computers !
So try Kew
Cheers

 

Dave

Just one small part of the jigsaw solved for you.

GRTD stands for General Reinforcements Training Depot, as in my own records shown below

Keep plodding away and you will get there

Ron

ps
I, and I am sure many others, would be pleased to see a link to a website that offers a guide to acronyms used in British Forces Army Records. I've spent a fair time GOOGLING on this subject but have yet to find a decent site. The US Forces seem better equipped to deal with this problem.
Can anyone help?

 

Thank you gentlemen one and all. I am now getting a clearer picture of what is contained in these documents. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, ideas and advice. Joining this forum was one of my smarter moves during this search.
Dave

 

My father Fred Philbey passed away recently and going through his papers, he served in this regiment as a Signaller mainly in Calcutta, during this Period.

Prior to that he served in the R.A. as a gunner on Merchant ships in the North Atlantic. His nick name was Phil and if anybody has any information about his time in the East Lancs, I would appreciate hearing from them.

 

As a matter if interest, the 'History of the East Lancs Regiment 1939-1945' is now available as a second edition. I found it on Waterstones web site for £25 and it's great. Clearly produced by scanning and reprinting the original but if it's just being used for research there is no point in spending £00's. I found loads to do with my own Dad's war. Chuffed to bits!