Remembering Gallipoli

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by bamboo43, Apr 25, 2015.

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  1. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

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  2. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

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  3. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    Agreed that we should remember and commemorate the dead of Gallipoli.

    However, I think it is just as important (perhaps even more important) to remember the Armenian Genocide. Perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire in 1915, most historian regard the killing and starvation of up to 1.5 million Armenians as genocide, yet the Turkish government has refused to accept responsibility. Indeed, there are people languishing in Turkish prisons for even suggesting what happened in 1915 was genocide.

    I know that many people, especially young Australians, feel some sort of affinity with Turkey. But in my book, Turkey cannot be accepted as a mature and modern nation until it accepts what it did in the past, and I feel uncomfortable seeing the royal family mixing with officials from an oppressive regime that stamps down on freedom of speech.
     
  4. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria. Patron

    Remembering :poppy:

    HARRISON, JAMES
    Rank: Lance Corporal
    Service No: 13022
    Date of Death: 09/08/1915
    Age: 20
    Regiment/Service: Border Regiment 6th Bn.
    Panel Reference Panel 119 to 125 or 222 and 223.
    Memorial HELLES MEMORIAL
    Additional Information: Son of the late James and Ann Harrison, of Great Broughton, Cockermouth, Cumberland.


    William John Bigrigg.
    Rank: Private
    Service No: 20201
    Date of Death: 21/08/1915
    Age: 35
    Regiment/Service: Border Regiment 1st Bn.
    Panel Reference Addenda Panel
    Memorial HELLES MEMORIAL
    Additional Information: Husband of Mary Bigrigg, of Cockermouth.
    N.B. This casualty has recently been accepted for commemoration by the Commission. However, it will not be possible to add his name to this Memorial immediately. Please contact the Commission before planning a visit, for more information.


    HINDE, BERTIE

    Rank: Company Serjeant Major
    Service No: 5480
    Date of Death: 01/05/1915
    Regiment/Service: Royal Munster Fusiliers 1st Bn.
    Panel Reference Panel 185 to 190.
    Memorial HELLES MEMORIAL


    BELL, JOSEPH MARTIN
    Rank: Private
    Service No: 11599
    Date of Death: 09/08/1915
    Age: 29
    Regiment/Service: Border Regiment 6th Bn.
    Panel Reference Panel 119 to 125 or 222 and 223.
    Memorial HELLES MEMORIAL
    Additional Information: Son of Joseph Martin Bell and Jane Bell, of 20, Clay St., Workington; husband of Sarah Ann Graham (formerly Bell), of 66, Senhouse St., Workington, Cumberland.
    Born Cockermouth.

    And to all the brave souls that lost their lives in the Gallipoli campaign.
     
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  5. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Spent some time today (and shared a couple of pints of the black stuff) with Pearse Kelly, who marched this morning in London in memory of his grandfather, Private Patrick Kelly, who was killed at Gallipoli on 29th May 1915.

    KELLY, PATRICK


    Rank: Private
    Service No: 12654
    Date of Death: 29/05/1915
    Regiment/Service: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 1st Bn.
    Panel Reference: Panel 97 to 101.
    Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I have written Australian military history and Gallipoli is especially important to Australians, but it takes nothing away from them to note that Gallipoli was very much an international effort by the Allies. The Allied forces at Gallipoli included units from:
    1. Britain (9 infantry divisions and most of the fleet)
    2. France (staff and about 1/2 the personnel of a two-division army corps, plus half a dozen battleships and other naval units)
    3. Australia (2 1/2 augmented infantry divisions, plus two submarines)
    4. New Zealand (2 infantry brigades, or 1/2 a division)
    5. India (three batallions of sikhs and punjabis, plus large numbers of service troops)
    6. Nepal (two gurkha battalions)
    7. Canada (one battalion of the Newfoundland Regiment)
    8. Ireland (battalions of four regiments based in the present day Republic of Ireland plus others from Ulster, equal to one division)
    9. Senegal and other West African nations (about eight battalions of troops serving with the French corps)
    10. Sri Lanka (Ceylon Planters' Rifle Corps)
    11. Algeria (Zouaves and Chasseurs d'Afrique with the French corps)
    12. Tunisia (Zouaves with the French corps)
    13. Russia (one light cruiser)
    14. Egypt (service troops and laborers)
    15. Israel (the Zion Mule Corps, a transport unit of Jewish settlers from Palestine)
    16. Malta (laborers)
    17. Greece (then neutral, but provided base facilities and large numbers of laborers)
    Today--Anzac Day--is a fitting time to remember them all.
     
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  7. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    As Newfoundland did not become a Canadian province until 1949 we technically were not represented.
     
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  8. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I realize that. Still, I also remember being in the Corner Brook Legion Hall many years ago and seeing old German Maxim MGs from WWI on the wall, so I think it only right that the Canadian association with Gallipoli should be remembered. It was the Newfoundland Regiment's first combat, after all.
     
  9. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    This is where Australia were first bloodied on a massive scale. Gallipoli was where it began. All in only eight months.

    There were greater losses on the Western Front however Gallipoli was the beginning for us and New Zealand.

    Of the Australians, these men were all volunteers prepared to fight for a cause they believed in. Much has been said about the irreverence of the Australian troops to British officers and command however they would follow officers that they respected. These men were mostly "off the land", drovers, shearers in the bush who lived a hard life, labourers and also professionals, clerical and tradesmen who had never belonged to a standing army.

    Although small in numbers, Australia has been there when it counted and still there at the end. WW2 was not any different.

    I have read where Australians were disrespectful to authority and were only good for one thing - fighting! So be it!

    Their losses in WW1 were not large compared to the major allied countries however to a small nation of less than 5,000,000, they were horrific.

    http://www.army.gov.au/Our-history/History-in-Focus/WWI-Gallipoli
    The campaign was a heroic but costly failure and by December plans were drawn up to evacuate the entire force from Gallipoli. On 19 and 20 December, the evacuation of Anzac and Suvla was completed with the last British troops leaving Cape Helles by 8 January 1916. The entire operation evacuated 142 000 men with negligible casualties. Australian casualties for the Gallipoli campaign amounted to 26 111, comprising of 1007 officers and 25 104 other ranks. Of these, 362 officers and 7 779 men were killed in action, died of wounds or succumbed to disease. Nine Victoria Crosses were awarded to soldiers in Australian units.

    While the campaign is considered a military failure, Gallipoli became a household name in Australia and with it the ANZAC tradition was created. Gallipoli became the common tie forged in adversity that bound the colonies and people of Australia into a nation.

    Some Australian Statistics
    First World War 4/8/1914 -- 11/11/1918
    • 416,809 enlisted AIF (includes AFC) -- 13.43 percent of the white male population and probably about half the eligible men.
    • 331,000 enlisted and served overseas
    • 61,720 died (all causes)
    • 155,000 wounded (all services)
    • 4,044 taken POW, 397 died while captive
    Sources: The War Office, Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire During the Great War, 1914-1920, (London 1922)
    AWM133 Nominal Roll of the AIF abroad
    AWM144 Roll of Honour Cards, First World War

    Country: Australia
    Total Casualties: 215,585
    Total Embarkation: 331,781
    % Casualties of Embarked: 64.98
     
  10. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    One for the UK readers....shown last night.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05sz6s6/gallipoli-when-murdoch-went-to-war

    "Gallipoli: When Murdoch Went to War
    Documentary. The story of the disastrous British-led Gallipoli military campaign from the perspective of Keith Murdoch, an Australian journalist and father of Rupert Murdoch."

    And at the risk of stating the b......g obvious on the scale of the human tragedy, when I was reviewing details of Patrick Kelly, I noted that there are, in fact, 73 Kellys listed by CWGC as having been killed at Galipoli - as well, as amongst others, 445 Smiths, 310 Jones, 206 Browns, 84 Murphys, 55 Gibsons, 29 McLeods, 17 O'Sullvans, and, of course, hundreds of Singhs and Khans...

    As usual, a huge number of these men don't have any family details listed.

    best,
     
  11. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    I must say that when I research Aircraft crew deaths where an Australian is on board the aircraft, about 95% of Australians have their NOK listed however the RAF lads would be 20%.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  12. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Geoff,

    The Australians seem to have a good lead on the UK MOD, with most if not all records being available on line.

    However if the recording at the time was slapshoddy, depending on who was taking care of the records, no amount of transposing to Digital records will cure the Problem of the lack of Information sometimes encountered.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  13. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    This graph shows the (UK) percentage of next of kin details plotted against the memorial or cemetery completion date. I believe the Helles memorial was opened in 1924. I believe this reduction of next of kin details over time was due to the Final Verification Forms (FVF) being sent out close to the completion date, as time went by, fewer were returned. WW1 FVFs were destroyed, either in WW2 or the 1970s.
    I've no idea if recording at the time was 'slapshoddy' (since the army ran on forms, I suspect not in general), but the loss of WW1 records in WW2 means many records do not now exist

    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/19687-next-of-kin-why/?p=239704
     
  14. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Letter from Atatürk to Anzacs:

    “Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives …You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears. Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.”

    A response by an Anzac’s mother to Atatürk’s words:

    “The warmth of your words eased our sorrow for our sons who vanished in Gallipoli, and our tears ended. Your words are a consolation to me as a mother. Now we are sure that our sons rest in peace in their eternal rest. If your Excellency accepts, we would like to call you ‘Ata’, too. Because what you have said at the graves of our sons could only be said by their own fathers. In the name of all mothers, our respects to the Great Ata who embraced our children with the love of a father.”

    Mustafa Kemal Atatürk - Wikipedia
     
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  15. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

     
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