Remembered With Honour?

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Andy Saunders, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

    Remembered With Honour?

    At Brookwood Military Cemetery stands a memorial to those Army personnel "..whom the fortune of war denied a known and honoured grave." On the monument is the inscription "Their Name Liveth For Evermore". Well, not exactly in all cases, perhaps.

    This memorial has the names of eighteen convicted and executed murderers (including one double child killer) and the name of one executed spy who may well have been responsible for very many British deaths. They have "no known or honoured grave" because they are buried in British prisons and the Army seemingly forgot or failed to give them a dishonourable discharge the day before execution as was the way with RAF or RN murderers. Thus, Gnr Ernest Kemp, RA, is perhaps one of the very first Army casualties on D-Day. He died on the gallows at Wandsworth at dawn on 6 June 1944 for the brutal murder of WAAF Miriam Deeley.

    The MOD refuse to have the names removed. One of their arguments is that: "this would cause distress to the families of the executed felons." This overlooks the feelings of the families of the victims.

    I have pending an HM Government e-petition to campaign to have these names struck off, but this comes against the background of an announcement that another Army murderer who was executed is having his name ADDED because it had been left off in error. To me, that is somehow worse than a failure to remove the other names.

    In this, the CWGC are blameless and beyond reproach. It is MOD policy, not the policy of the CWGC.

    I hope there will be interest here in signing an e-petition if it is approved. I have one waiting for approval by HMG. I believe that one of the first signatories will be from a family member of WAAF Miriam Deeley.
    __________________
     
  2. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Well said Andy, as soon as the petition is up and running, please give the forum members an opportunity to air their views.

    Regards
    Peter
     
  3. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    I for one would sign the petition.
     
  4. La-de-da-Gunner Graham

    La-de-da-Gunner Graham Senior Member

    Likewise, count me in.

    Keith
     
  5. Kbak

    Kbak Senior Member

    me too

    Keith
     
  6. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    I'll sign, murderers deserve no honourable mention

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  7. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce Patron

    I'll sign, murderers deserve no honourable mention

    Cheers
    Paul

    Me too

    Lesley
     
  8. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    Probably stating the obvious, but I'm assuming that the originator is not including in the scheme of things those poor sods that were shot for psychological issues in WW1 and earlier.
     
  9. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    I agree wholeheartedly with you on this one and have always thought the same. The USA has a dishonored plot at a cemetery in France, to commemorate murderers who HAVE a known even if unmarked grave in a prison burial ground on the next line to someone who made the ultimate sacrifice is just a traversty
     
  10. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

    Probably stating the obvious, but I'm assuming that the originator is not including in the scheme of things those poor sods that were shot for psychological issues in WW1 and earlier.

    No. Different issue and they are buried under CWGC headstones, anyway, and have since been pardoned.
     
  11. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    I'll sign, count me in Andy,

    Regards

    simon
     
  12. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

    Thanks all!

    My Government e-petition is yet to be approved, but I am hoping to hear one way or another before Christmas. However, approval is not a "given". I have already made one attempt to register a petition in this cause, but it failed. I think it may have been because I named the individuals and so my revised attempt gives no names of felons or victims and I hope that is passed. If not, then I can only imagine it will simply be because the matter is just a little too sensitive and uncomfortable for HMG. We will see.

    Watch this space, as they say.
     
  13. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

    For interest, here are the names of the felons thus far identified:

    Private Arthur PEACH
    Private August SANGRET
    Gunner Arthur KEMP
    Private David JENNINGS
    L/Cpl Frederick AUSTIN
    L/Cpl Walter CLAYTON
    Private Cyril JOHNSON
    Cpl Dudley RAYNER
    Private Charles GAUTHIER
    Private Terrence CASEY
    Private Mervin McEWAN
    Private John DAVIDSON
    Sgt Ernest DIGBY
    Private Horace GORDON
    Private Arthur THOMPSON
    Private Theodore SCHURCH
    Private Charles RAYMOND
    Bombadier Joseph CROSSLEY
     
  14. Son of POW-Escaper

    Son of POW-Escaper Senior Member

    This seems like political correctness taken to the level of absurdity.

    Their logic escapes me.

    Marc
     
  15. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    I watched a recording I made of a program called Inside Out on BBC1, in which this subject was covered. Three of the names on Andy's list were mentioned. 2 were hanged for murder (one a Native American who served in a Canadian unit) and the third was a POW who went over to the ememy and reported the goings on in his camp to the Germans. He was reported by his fellow inmates after the war and eventually hanged for treason. These 3 were buried in graves within their respective British prisons, so in a sense do have a known grave, though not commemorated.
     
  16. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

    Ramacal

    Yes, the Inside Out programme was one that I 'sold' to the BBC and I was the chap being interviewed by the presenter! We only had time to look at three specific cases.

    The memorial is specifically for those "..whom the fortunes of war denied a known and honoured grave."

    In a sense, you are right. They do have a 'known' grave, but it certainly is not an honoured one and it would be difficult, too, to argue that they were denied such a grave by the fortunes of war.
     
  17. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

  18. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Never signed a petition as quickly as I did this one !

    Good luck Andy

    Ron
     
  19. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Senior Member

    Thank you, Ron!

    We just need 99,000 + others.....

    Well, its a start so far.
     
  20. Roxy

    Roxy Senior Member

    Do all those executed during WW1 have a CWGC headstone?

    Roxy
     

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