Realistic Toy Rifle.

:angry:
I am a sad, 37 year old father of a typical six year old boy.
Now, I don't want to sound like a grouch or a rotten parent, but in trying to find my son a rifle (He asked for a "proper" rifle), I have been struck by the lengths manufacturers go to these days to make toy guns anything BUT realistic.
They're all red or garish blue plastic with little stickers of lighting bolts, or whatever.
Worse still, the "space" ones all make laser noises and flash in an annoying way.
When I was a lad (here we go....), I had a Belgian FN rifle (SLR), with a removable magazine, strap, bayonet, moveable sights and (bonus), it fired real little plastic bullets, which you loaded into the magazine.
No, don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about a BB gun or air-rifle. Even at point-blank range these little bullets would'nt even sting, but it was great fun.

Why can't I get something like that anymore?
Is it because we're all PC these days?
Does anyone know where I can get them or just want to agree with me and have a good bitch?

 

Your point about being PC is the the answer you seek!

Society feels that guns in whatever innocent use encourage violence, just like films lead to murder and so on..

I have mixed views on it and will leave it at that

 

Hi Lee,

Thanks for your reply.
I'm not sure that I agree with society on that one, because, for all my running around with my toy SLR, I have grown up to be scared of "real" guns.
Although I still have an interest from an historic point of view, I would never consider owning even a BB or air-gun.
I suppose it's an interesting argument, but did we really produce more gun crazy killers in the seventies than we do now?

 

Hi TonyNS,

An interesting subject not easily answered.

My father never shot a gun before he went to war and didn't fire one after he returned to Australia however he "educated" me both "physically & morally on their use and allowed me the freedom to choose.

We could not afford a real toy gun so we carved them out of a piece of wood.

Parental interest and education of their children in these areas comes back to the basics of right and wrong. The decision as in your case not to own a rifle is personal.

The head in the sand attitude of "educators" will not alter a "bad" persons will to inflict damage or injury on others.

 

Mainly its liberals and there whole "Guns promote violence" but also the fact that if u got a pistol in your hand that looks just like a desert eagle it could be mistaken as a real gun and may scare people if u started waving it around or if u saw a little kid with such a weapon.

 

I suppose, this topic does cause a great deal of discussion, but it is a reflection of the society that we live in.

As a child, i was given a plastic Tommy gun as a christmas present, i was also given a lecture by my dad both about the tommy gun and gun safety!

in the ATC, I shot lee-enfields of both .22 and .303 calibre. in the RAF, I fired a variety of weapons. Since leaving the RAF, I have only fired a weapon twice, both occassion was at a stall in a fair using a .22. I would not have a gun, I see no need for guns outwith the military.

With that in mind, there are various shops that sell imitation guns, including some very realistic imitation guns and they are a concern, given the amount of viloent films and programmes and "shoot-em-up" games. There is aslo the amount of imitation guns used by petty criminals and those who seek "suicide by police".

i think that if they are to make realistic toys, then they should be made of bright and lurid colors to make them stand out as toys!

And BB guns should be banned

 

Originally posted by Alpha_Cluster@Aug 29 2005, 02:39 AM
Mainly its liberals and there whole "Guns promote violence" but also the fact that if u got a pistol in your hand that looks just like a desert eagle it could be mistaken as a real gun and may scare people if u started waving it around or if u saw a little kid with such a weapon.
[post=38311]Quoted post[/post]


Then, of course, the police might shoot anyone with a realistic looking toy weapon in these days of the war against terror. They even shot one guy with a chair leg, which they thought was a gun.

My advice to anyone with a kid is to buy them a toy gun that looks like something out of Star Wars or Dan Dare. Better safe than sorry!

 

Originally posted by TonyNS@Aug 28 2005, 07:05 PM

When I was a lad (here we go....), I had a Belgian FN rifle (SLR), with a removable magazine, strap, bayonet, moveable sights and (bonus), it fired real little plastic bullets, which you loaded into the magazine.
No, don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about a BB gun or air-rifle. Even at point-blank range these little bullets would'nt even sting, but it was great fun.

[post=38278]Quoted post[/post]

I had one of those, made of plastic and made by Airfix IIRC.

I also had a Thompson sub machine gun - same makers.

 

hmm, yes. My thoughts were mostly with the idea that kids running about nowadays will most likely end up having the police called on them or something.

 

i have fired air rifles when i was 15 set up a target and hit it. many farmers i know have enough fire power to start a platoon of riflemen. and the first thing i was taught was gun safety even took a course at school. could have gotten my hands on a 30.06 but never did. the reason is i know movies and games even based on real event has been in some parts faked. the problem as i see it is parents don't want to be parents anymore let the tv teach my kids. and a good spanking when needed never hurt. but only use your hand.

 

I agree with Lee that the last thing you'd want in this day is a child running around with a realistic looking toy weapon.

In Canada we have seen a sharp increase in gun violence even though all weapons are regulated, and some prohibited. The police here have become much more aggresive with how they use their weapons as a result.

All that being said, I too had great fun with my toy Tommy gun as a child.

 

A case happened the other day. A father and son were out fishing and bought a pair of toy guns (poss. water pistols?) so they could pass the time.

Anyhow, these guns were seen by a passer-by and an armed response unit was called. Ended up with both being held and searched by them at gunpoint. I think they were given a ticking off.

 

I had toy guns as a kid, but IMHO the function was mainly social. In about 1958, there was a craze for a tiny cap pistol called the 'Special Agent', and sometimes there'd be 20 - 30 kids or more battling it out in the playground with these - till it got out of hand and the teachers banned 'em. But AFAIK none of those kids went on to become gun murderers. To a degree, what matters to the kids is being part of a subculture with shared values, and that can be centred round marbles, yoyos, dinky toys, capguns, skateboards...anything!

I discouraged my lads from having toy guns (though I can't claim to have prevented it completely ) because I don't now believe guns should be associated with casual play. I think it's the disconnection with the reality of the gun promoted by toy guns, action films and shoot 'em up computer games that's a major reason for the current high level of violence compared to my chidhood years.

However, a serious interest in real shooting is a different thing. I've owned guns (including wartime classics) and shot them for the sake of technical interest and competition all my adult life. I don't shoot at living things because I have no reason to that I can justify to myself - except that I did despatch an injured rook a few months back. I encouraged my boys to take up air rifle shooting as soon as they were old enough to hold one steady. With a proper regard for what the things can do and a diligent attitude to safety, there is no reason why people shouldn't shoot as a hobby or for competition. As it turns out, neither of them has chosen to take up shooting as an adult, but they don't have neurotic attitude about guns either.

So I don't have a problem with the idea of toy guns being pink and purple. I don't have a problem with careful licensing of possession of real guns either. I do have a problem with the simplistic banning of possession when it's other social factors - possibly the trivialising of realistic violence in action movies and computer games - that produce the asocial and compassionless values that lead to murder.

Regards,
MikB

 

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

 

Well my opinion is this. If taught correctly any child can become proficient and safe with firearms. One of my very first toys was a toy AK-47 that other than the orange tip looked very realistic. I also spray painted the tip black. By the time I was 4 I had my first BB gun and was taught how to use it responsibly by my father. When I turned 7 I had a 20 gauge shotgun and regularly accompanied Dad into the field to hunt birds. When I turned 10 I had a Remington Model 700 .243 bolt action rifle. At age 14 I was the proud owner of an M1 Garand manufactured in 1945 soon followed by an M1 carbine, M1903 Springfield, Kar98k, Savage 12 gauge trench gun, and a Walther P38 with capture papers documenting its "change of ownership" in the Ardennes, 1944. I still have all of my weapons and recently bought an AR15A2 5.56X45mm. I have never used any of my weapons in an unresponsible manner and will never do so. I believe that if one is taught at an early age to properly use weapons that the chances of gun violence and accidents is greatly reduced.

 

There is something that should be mentioned and that is the people like myself who come from Britain have a totally different viewpoint from the American one, because weapons here are so difficult to get legally and you must have licenses, the Police can inspect you weapons at anytime etc so on and so forth.

Whereas in America it would seem that guns are freely available and widely used. We in Britain do not want a gun culture but it would seem to be forced upon us by outside influences.

Even, where I live the local newspaper had headlines about someone being hunted by the police because he was carrying a handgun. Now that is bad, given that we are the site of various sectarian marches every year and combined with availability of illegal weapons could lead to some nasty incidents.

We should therefore be clamping down and one way to do this, is to ensure that children are not brought up with the idea that the only way to settle something is to reach for a hand gun and that the person who is shot will manage to miraculously get up and be okay as happens in the cartoons.

 

I used to shoot competetively and on the very rare occasions when I get to do it now, I still enormously enjoy shooting, although I am very much out of practice.

However, apart from using shotguns and very limited scope for using .22 rifles on farmland (with the farmer's permission I might add), there are very few places where you can safely shoot in this part of England apart from properly organised ranges. There are just not the opportunities here to go out in the country and shoot in the way you can in many parts of the USA.

Someone I know from another forum, a gunsmith living in California, had in effect made his own range out in the desert where he regularly goes and sets up his own targets. You just could not do that here.

The gun culture which worries many of us most is an urban culture associated with drugs and it attracts too many young people. Unfortunately, if they get hold of a gun, they are pretty clueless about firearms.

Fifty years ago, maybe small boys could play at wars or cowboys and Indians, but I think those days are gone.

 

Originally posted by angie999@Oct 2 2005, 09:21 PM
I used to shoot competetively and on the very rare occasions when I get to do it now, I still enormously enjoy shooting, although I am very much out of practice.


From an Australian perspective:

I too am a "shooter" like Angie and have been since my teens however may I say an educated one.

My guns are used to shoot feral goats and pigs on large farming properties (although I am from the city) where these vermin absolutely destroy crops in times of drought. The situation here has changed after an "insane" person got his hands on a high powered army automatic and slaughtered quite a few tourists at a coffee shop in Tasmania.

The Federal government acted to withdraw from the community all high powered automatic rifles and automatic shotguns (handgun ownership was already strictly governed) on a buy back scheme.

I possessed at that time, a .22 - 15 shot automatic rifle that would not knock a chook off a fence at 50 feet and so had to relinquish it to buy back.

I also own a Remington .243 semi auto 5 shot with a scope that you can read the number plate of a car at a 1000 yards and a Winchester .44 Magnum lever action 10 shot semi automatic however I am allowed to keep those because they are not "automatic".

I am very happy about that decision however I could shoot the Winchester in just under automatic time and cause much the same carnage.

Governments react in a knee jerk response to many things and this was another such case.

All gun owners need to be licenced as are their weapons which are placed on a database. Police can call at your home and demand to see the weapons in a locked, bolted to the floor steel safe and that the ammunition is in a separate area in another locked container. If you do not pass the inspection your guns can be confiscated and your licence to possess can be revoked.

The only trouble with this situation is that they are only checking the people who have both licences and have declared their weapons. The undeclared weapons are the ones that are the problem and the police don't know where they are.

It is sad that the world has changed so much however it is now irreversible. My father never touched a firearm after he returned from the Middle East. When he was sometimes required to "carry" for security at the "Mint" where he worked, he would check the piece out and lock it in his locker.

He was however the one who taught me firearm etiquette and the value of being a good person.

The young boys will have to settle for learning how to assemble bombs on the internet ..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not a facetious remark, just a sign of the times.

 

(morse1001 @ Oct 2 2005, 03:17 AM) [post=39631]There is something that should be mentioned and that is the people like myself who come from Britain have a totally different viewpoint from the American one, because weapons here are so difficult to get legally and you must have licenses, the Police can inspect you weapons at anytime etc so on and so forth.

Whereas in America it would seem that guns are freely available and widely used. We in Britain do not want a gun culture but it would seem to be forced upon us by outside influences.

Even, where I live the local newspaper had headlines about someone being hunted by the police because he was carrying a handgun. Now that is bad, given that we are the site of various sectarian marches every year and combined with availability of illegal weapons could lead to some nasty incidents.

We should therefore be clamping down and one way to do this, is to ensure that children are not brought up with the idea that the only way to settle something is to reach for a hand gun and that the person who is shot will manage to miraculously get up and be okay as happens in the cartoons.
[/b]


Wow, not to start a internet brawl so to speak...

But where are you getting your information? In the US, the highest crime rate per capita is Washington DC. And we do believe that it is due to the draconian gun laws in that area. And the lowest rate per capita would be in the Wyoming-North Dakota area, which btw has very un-restrictive laws. Coincidence?

As to "outside influences", who is trying to force them upon you?

Since I am new here, I don't want to seem like a internet troll. Really I don't. If this offends anyone, I apologize in advance.

 

(Pathfinder @ Oct 8 2005, 08:01 PM) [post=39856] But where are you getting your information? In the US, the highest crime rate per capita is Washington DC. And we do believe that it is due to the draconian gun laws in that area. And the lowest rate per capita would be in the Wyoming-North Dakota area, which btw has very un-restrictive laws. Coincidence?

[/b]

The fact that one of the worst inner city black gettos in the USA has the highest crime rate per capita, and that a middle of nowhere rural area has the lowest, has in my view absolutely nothing to do with whatever local gun laws are in place.

If you did the same survey in the UK you would get exactly the same result, a poor inner city getto would have the highest per capitia crime rate, while a quiet rural area would have the lowest, despite the gun laws being the same.