Re: Bomber crew ID and Alick Hamilton, 12 Sqn

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Danny Burt, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. Danny Burt

    Danny Burt Member

    RAF Bomber crew and F/O A Hamilton needed..
    Hiya all,

    Picked up some items on ebay. Photo attached. Long shot but does anyone recognise any of the crews ID?

    The other one is finding details of a Alick Hamilton, a 12 sqn observer.



    Attached Files:

  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    A possibility - and a sad story:-
    CL1 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  4. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Interestingly No 230 OCU (eBay seller reference) has been the designation of the conversion unit used across a range of aircraft post war such as No 230 OCU at Scampton for the Lincoln B2 and later No OCU for Vulcans at Waddington from 1957.

    It looks as if the photograph is one of a Wellington OTU crew or a crew when No 12 Squadron operated out of Binbrook with the type from 3 July 1940 to August 1942.There were detachments to Thorney Island and Eastchurch from Binbrook until the 7 September 1940.In late 1939 and early,some squadrons were reformed as designated OTU units in a period where continuous restructuring took place.These OTUs were equipped with a miscellany of aircraft including the Wellington.......No 12 Squadron was never so transformed.

    No 12 Squadron was one of the AASF operating from French bases where its Battles proved to be inadequate as a front line bomber.Withdrawn to GB ,it first base was at Finningley for little more than a fortnight from 16 June 1940 until it found residence at the newly opened base at Binbrook in the Lincolnshire Wolds from 3 July 1940.

    Alick Hamilton...from CWGC records it appears that he survived the war.

    Improper fitting of gas appliance leads to tragedy....still a common occurrence despite all the warnings.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    OK so from the newspaper article this perhaps is Sonya [his daughter]

    Sonya C Hamilton
    BIRTH MAR 1930 • Camberwell, Surrey, England
    DEATH MAR 1945 • Surrey South Eastern, Surrey, England

    Surrey, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1987
    Name: Sonya Hamilton
    Age: 14
    Birth Year: abt 1931
    Burial Date: 18 Jan 1945
    Burial Place: Dorking, St Martin, Surrey, England
    Parish as it Appears: Dorking, St Martin
    Address for her is as in the article
    303 High Street Dorking

    That then according to this tree makes her father 'Alick'

    Birth 03/1930 Camberwell Surrey England
    Death 03/1945 Surrey England

    Father Charles Pollock Hamilton (1892-1972)

    Mother Irene Alice Martin (1902-1979)


    Charles Pollock Hamilton
    BIRTH 15 SEP 1892 • Dundrum, Dublin, Ireland
    DEATH MAR 1972 • Honiton, Devon, England
  6. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Patron Patron

    There's a WW1 medal index card for a Lt Charles Pollock Hamilton, 2/21st London Regiment, went to France in 1916. It records his address in 1922 as 32 Croxted Rd, West Dulwich (also that he was M-i-D). There's a 1918 Absent Voters record for a Charles Hamilton at 42, Surrey Row, Blackfriars Rd who could be the same man.

  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
    Name: Charles Pollock Hamilton
    Regiment or Corps: 2/21 Lond R

  8. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Are we discounting Alick? I can't see why there is any reason to doubt the newspaper.
  9. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    A much longer article about the death of Sonya Hamilton appears in Surrey Advertiser of 20 Jan 1945, located via the British News Paper Archives, which quotes Alik Hamilton as being in the RAF Regt. I do not have a full sub to be able to look at the full article.
    Results for 'sonya hamilton dorking' | Between 1st Jan 1940 and 31st Dec 1949 | British Newspaper Archive

    Have looked at the online tree quoted in post 5, where the source person seems to be the child of Charles Pollock Hamiltons nephew. It is peppered by family photos usually indicating some accuarcy. The WW1 MIC for Charles Pollock Hamilton 2/21 Londons is also included on the tree. Am happy to send a message to the tree owner if required.

    It is complemented by an online Pollock family tree, with plenty of military history in the family, including Charles's uncle, Walter Richard Pollock HAMILTON VC, b. 18 Aug 1856, d. 3 Sep 1879. Awarded the Victoria Cross for bravery at the Battle of Fattehabad, Afghanistan, April 2, 1879, during the Second Afghan War (1878-79).
    Sir Frederick Pollock

    Charles could have been known as "Alick", this happened in my family an uncle called Alexander was always called Alik. Also it seems Charles's brother, uncle, grandfather & other family members all used that forename.

    However this may be at least the start of Charles WW2:

    The London Gazette 25th February 1941 Supplement page 1148
    Regular Army
    Emergency Commissions etc
    Essex R.
    Corpl. Charles Pollock HAMILTON (117702) to be Lt 21 Feb 1940 (substituted for notifn. in Gazette (suplement) dated 20th Feb 1940.
    Page 995 | Supplement 34793, 16 February 1940 | London Gazette | The Gazette
  10. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Looking at the various photos, the first posted on here could be a Wellington crew, 3 officers and 2 Sgts, only one officer with pilots wings, so presumably the other two officers would be navigator and bomb aimer, leaving a W/Op and rear gunner as the NCO's?
    The cockpit photo on the ebay site looks more Wellington than anything else.
    The three crew captioned A Flight 12 Squadron could be early War or pre War being the crew of a Battle (but obviously they survived the slaughter of Battle crews in France) . With happy smiles, they don't look exhausted as I'd expect them to look in midsummer 1940.
    So, perhaps pre War enlistment and presumably he's one of the officers in the 5 crew photo, where the two NCO's look to have a shoulder flash missing from the other uniforms, possibly a RAFVR flash?
    That would mean moving from 12 Squadron to 230 OTU, perhaps familiarisation from single engine Battles to twin engined Wellingtons...

    Does that then square with the Charles Pollock Hamilton family tree details? If they also contain these photos then I'd query the Essex Regiment enlistment...... My hunch is that Alick isn't Charles Pollock, but I'm no expert!
  11. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The Surrey Advertiser article does indeed refer to "Flight Officer Alick Hamilton, RAF Regt.", most of the article refers to the circumstances and the only additional piece of family information is that it refers to Mrs Hamilton's youngest daughter .

    The Ancestry tree that is referred to, and which suggests that Sonya's father is Charles Pollock Hamilton, has some information that I would like to see the documentary evidence for. The tree suggests that Sonya's mother's maiden name was Irene Alice Martin who married Charles in 1925 (his second marriage). It gives the death of Irene in Q2 1979 and also a probate record, BUT both of these are in her maiden name of Martin and not Hamilton as you would expect. Probate gives her address as 54 Dalmeny Road.

    It states that Irene was born 8 Jan 1902 whilst she was 4 in the 1911 census. There is a Irene A Martin with a birth date of 8 Jan 1902 in the 1939 Register (Address 54 Dalmeny Road) and this has the same address as the probate entry in the tree, but she is married to Roy H Martin. I believe this is actually Irene A Nielsen and her son, in the 1939 register, was named after her. Roy Harold Martin married Irene on 23 July 1927, her address 54 Dalmeny Road.

    The tree also suggests that Sonya had a sister, June Pollock Hamilton and states her birth registration as Q3 1925 but also has her death record Q1 2001 which gives a birth date of 1927.

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  12. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    As an aside.......The seller of these artefacts has the pseudonym of 230ocu

    No 230 OCU was the postwar successor to an HCU. In this case, No 230 OCU was formed from No 1653 HCU. By 1946 on the rapid rundown of the RAF only No 1653 HCU and three OTUs, Nos 16,17 and 21 existed from August 1945 when 5 OTUs and 3 HCUs were left from the wartime training structure.These 3 HCUs appear to have had no training role immediate post war but were used to provide Cooks tours of the bombed Ruhr for groundcrew viewing in addition to the disposal of bombs in the North Sea.

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