Rates of Pay in WW2

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Ron Goldstein, Aug 23, 2007.

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  1. Nicola_G

    Nicola_G Senior Member

    I have the service records which was sent to me from Raf records,,lots of squibbles but have made sense of most of it. hope this helps

    Try ringing RAF Hendon Research Department. If you take or send the files in someone there can help you 'translate' it. That's what i did with my uncle's service records.
     
  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Hello Ambler,

    Regarding RAF Manby and RAF Acklington.Overall these two stations were never associated with Bomber Command and as such never mounted a B.C operation but the latter became an important Fighter Command station in time to play a part in the Battle of Britain.Therefore,your father would not be involved in Bomber Command operations from these stations.

    Manby opened in August 1938 as an Armament Training Station and designated as No 1 Armament School (No1 ASS) conducting courses on armaments,bomb aiming.air gunnery and armourer training.Its principal practice range was at RAF Theddlethorpe,now a BG pipeline terminal.

    Manby was designed as an Armament Training School from the outset and as such only had two relatively short runways.When aircraft were involved in training,overspill was catered for using RAF Caistor as a RLG.Later on in the war,Manby had an increasingly important role for the training in advanced armament,specialist armament,air bombing instructing and bombing leaders training.

    RAF Acklington opened on April 1 1938 as No 7 Armament Training School and on November 1939, No 2 AOS (Air Observers School) was established for the training of bombing and gunnery skills to direct entrants to the RAF,as opposed to those who had remustered from existing RAF service.In addition,Acklington offered air gunnery training to groups up to 30 strong at a time when dedicated gunnery schools did not exist and air gunnery training tended to be squadron based "on the job" training.

    Acklington's role changed on April 1 1940 when the station was transferred to Fighter Command so your father must have been involved in duties which were associated with flying since he was a recipient of crew pay (flying pay).It has crossed my mind that to receive flying pay, your father might be involved in some activity such as a droque operator in gunnery training but I have been unable to ascertain if such a "lodger unit" was in attendance here in the early days of Fighter Command occupation of the airfield.

    Regarding the progression of air gunners.These were inducted into the RAF as Aircrafthands (General Duties ) and placed in Trade Group V,the lowest trade group as AC2s.In fact this group was not a trade group in reality and was also the group that newcomers were placed in, pending completion of their intended technical training. Whatever structured training they had or not when they passed out,air gunners remained in the Trade Group V as AC2s drawing 2 shillings a day pay plus flying pay of 6 pence a day.After one year as an AC2,the pay would be increased to 2 shillings a day in addition to flying pay.As an LAC,the pay would be 4 shillings and 3 pence a day.

    After the start of the war,Aircrafthands (General Duties), on completion of their training could pass out as Air Gunner AC1s or LACs depending on the marks attained during their training.Pass grade would normally be AC2.This arrangement would change for the better when in May 1940,the Air Ministry decreed that the minmum rank for aircrew would be Sergeant.Before that, a gunner without a previous trade remained in Trade Group V,ie without a basic grade and no realistic career progression beyond the classification of LAC.The progression of war would change it.

    Looking at at the variation in pay across a NCO aircrew.A Sergeant Pilot newly passed out,would draw 12 shillings and 6 pence plus flying pay.After 4 years and I am sure this never applied to any Sergeant Pilot for a variety of reasons,his pay would be 13 shillings and 6 pence plus flying pay.

    A Sergeant Observer,newly passed out would receive 11 shillings a day plus flying pay but receive 11 shillings and 6 pence a day plus flying pay after 4 years.

    Now consider an air gunner newly passed out and in the standstill classification of AC2.His daily pay was a meagre 2 shillings a day plus 6 pence a day flying pay.

    Some air gunners also progressed to qualified wireless operators in a dual capacity which increased the scope of the pay scales available to them.Wireless operators were placed in Trade Group 11 (second in the Trade Group table) where an AC2 under training would have the daily rate of pay of 3 shillings and 6 pence,1 shilling 6 pence more than that of an air gunner.They were also eligible to the improved classification of AC1 and LAC as determined by their pass out marks.

    Unfortunately you have not indicated your father's classification.I cannot see him completing his service as an AC2 although it would have been possible.He may have started his service as an air gunner in training and had to remuster.Perhaps his service record could reveal more.

    Incidentally a Flight Sergeant as an Aircrafthand would receive a daily pay of 7 shillings and 9 pence.

    Trade Groups and Rates of Pay based on 1940 Air Ministry Form 434.

    Hope this is of further help in understanding your father's service.
     
  3. ambler

    ambler Junior Member

    hello Harry That has been very informative ,sorry not to have included his Classification

    but here is what is written on service records
    31-12-38 AC"2
    31-1239 AC"2
    31-2-1940 LAC
    31-12-41 CPL this he maintained till his retirement in 1950

    his AC" rank Started After his attachment to 1 AAS Manby in 1939
    his trade group shows 2 type Grades ACH/GD then on several other dates shows
    ARMS/ASSIST

    but hey no matter what he and the men and women f did,,I am proud to say he took part and did his bit
     
  4. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    hello Harry That has been very informative ,sorry not to have included his Classification

    but here is what is written on service records
    31-12-38 AC"2
    31-1239 AC"2
    31-2-1940 LAC
    31-12-41 CPL this he maintained till his retirement in 1950

    his AC" rank Started After his attachment to 1 AAS Manby in 1939
    his trade group shows 2 type Grades ACH/GD then on several other dates shows
    ARMS/ASSIST

    but hey no matter what he and the men and women f did,,I am proud to say he took part and did his bit

    Ambler,

    Thanks for the information which I will expand as soon as possible.Looks straight forward.At first glance ARMS/ASSIS appears to be Armourers Assistant.

    As I have said the rates of pay had not changed a great deal in the 10 years since 1940.I base this on my rate of pay, on entry to the RAF, with those applicable in 1940.There must have been a good grip on inflation in that era even though wars tend to be inflationary.
     
  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Hello Ambler.

    The fact that your father received crew pay for the period 30/1/1940 to 27/12 1940 whilst at Manby until 14/3/1940 and then at Acklington suggests to me that he was associated with gunnery training as a member of the permanent staff at these stations.

    Given that Acklington was placed in F.C from 1 April 1940,it looks as if from the early days of F.C occupation of the airfield, there may have been a "lodger unit" on the airfield undertaking gunnery training although I have not been able to ascertain if this is correct.

    As I previously posted, ARMS/ASSIST would appear to be Armourer's Assistant.The RAF Trades Rate of Pay structure for 1940 does not include Armourer's Assistant and the answer to this is that an Aircraft Hand General Duties could be deployed on a wide range of groundcrew duties as helpers to the higher trades.In your father's case he, as a Group V Trade airman, was an assistant to the Armourer Trade in Group 11. As the war progressed further changes would be made to the Trades Rates of Pay schedule to accomodate changes in technology employed by the RAF and entry of the new trades such as Radar Mechanic and not forgetting the very important step change in aircrew structure which saw aircrew Wireless Operators removed from the Trades Group 11 and assimilated into the minimum rank of Sergeant.

    When your father was promoted to LAC on 31/2/1940,his pay would be 4 shillings a day and by the time he was promoted to Corporal on 31/12/1941,his pay would be 4 shillings and 6 pence a day.His maximum pay based on Corporal rank would be 5 shillings a day after 4 years in the rank (based on the 1940 structure) and did not include yearly increments.I can imagine that his pay had not changed much by 1950.

    Your father's rank,classification in reality,given on 31/12/1939 is shown as AC2 which may be an incorrect entry.I think his rank should have been recorded as AC1.

    However a reclassification from AC2 to LAC during this era would have only been enacted in the case of pilots and observers under training who would assimilate to LACs from AC2 (still in the classification of Aircraft Hand (General Duties) on completion of their intial training and before they undertook flying training.Your father was at Acklington when he reached the rank of LAC and at the time,Acklington was not involved in the flying training of pilots and observers.

    Hope this helps.Personal files can be difficult to interrogate due to brevity of the entries.
     
  6. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Does anyone know how much this would have been in the 1920's - (1929 to be exact ;) ) - please?
     
  7. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

    Does anyone know how much this would have been in the 1920's - (1929 to be exact ;) ) - please?

    Hi,

    The basic rate of pay for a private soldier between 1925 (when 'Geddes Axe' cuts were introduced) and 1937 was two shillings per day. Incidentally, if you allow for inflation, this was worth about half the purchasing power of the private soldier's one shilling a day in 1797 ...

    Best, Alan
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Merged with existing more substantial Pay thread, Rosy.
    ~A
     
  9. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Thanks Alan that's very helpful and thanks Adam - wondered for a sec what was going on then :)
     
  10. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  11. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    I was paid 3/6d (18p decimal currency) a day as a Gunner in 1948. About £5.21 in today's values; approx £36.50 a week.
     
  12. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce Patron

    Don't know if this question has been asked before:unsure:.

    Was the pay for a trooper in ww2 about 14 shillings per week?
    How did they receive their pay? Was it held for them by the paymaster if they were out on the front line or did it go to a bank account at home. I suspect a lot of men had to send money home to their families (mother and father). Was tax deducted at source?

    Lesley
     
  13. Tab

    Tab Senior Member

    Bank accounts were as rare as rocking horse droppings in WW2. Allotments could be made to your wife, family or other dependants. Now when my grandfather was in India this was sent to his mother by postal order. Now when I was in forces on active service you did not get paid for months. Also I know a W/O who went a year with out being paid. He was up in the hills in Radfan and every thing they needed was dropped to them by parachute, so there was nothing to spend your money on any way. Also he wore the same uniform for year as well, so the natives should have smelt him coming.
     
  14. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce Patron

    Thanks for that Tab-I had forgotten all about postal orders! Seems a long time ago that we used them. My dad came from a poor family and his father and mother worked at the mills in Bradford and had other mouths to feed so I expect he made a provision for them out of his pay.

    Lesley
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    I've Got Sixpence

    I've got sixpence
    Jolly. jolly sixpence
    I've got sixpence to last me all my life
    I've got twopence to spend
    And twopence to lend
    And twopence to send home to my wife-poor wife.

    CHORUS: No cares have I to grieve me
    No pretty little girls to deceive me
    I'm happy as a lark believe me
    As we go rolling, rolling home
    Rolling home (rolling home)
    Rolling home (rolling home)
    By the light of the silvery moo-oo-on
    Happy is the day when we line up for our pay
    As we go rolling, rolling home.

    I've got fourpence
    Jolly, jolly fourpence
    I've got fourpence to last me all my life
    I've got twopence to spend
    And twopence to lend
    And no pence to send home to my wife-poor wife.

    I've got twopence
    Jolly, jolly twopence
    I've got twopence to last me all my life
    I've got twopence to spend
    And no pence to lend
    And no pence to send home to my wife-poor wife.

    I've got no pence
    Jolly. jolly no pence
    I've got no pence to last me all my life
    I've got no pence to spend
    And no pence to lend
    And no pence to send home to my wife-poor wife.


    My late father went pale and sat down shaking his head when I mentioned joining the army - I got the lecture from a pre war regular Fitter/Armourer who was on a very high RAF pay scale (guns and bombs) and length of service all added up. Army he wailed- Pongos -'small brown furry things that have not seen water for some time, badly dressed, badly fed and certainly badly paid! He refused to sign me up as a junior soldier. I joined as an adult after my training as an engineer. He was chuffed soldier or not!
     
  16. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    Paratroopers got 2 shillings a day extra which is why my Grandfather was a paratrooper.


    A well know folk song we actually sung at school.
    Tuppence I got for selling me cloak
    Tuppence for selling me blanket
    If I ever list for a soldier again
    Devil shall be me sergeant

    I think the proper words are fifty instead of tuppence meaning fifty whip strokes.
     
  17. mimike

    mimike Junior Member

    I am intrigued by this topic. How does this pay (for Brits) compare to other countries?
    How was pay for US forces handled?
    How does this pay compare to what soldiers today get?
     
  18. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    I am intrigued by this topic. How does this pay (for Brits) compare to other countries?
    How was pay for US forces handled?
    How does this pay compare to what soldiers today get?

    Good question, and how does the pay received compare with what they would have got in their civilian jobs/equivalent jobs?
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Merged with existing more substantial Pay thread, and pinned it.
    ~A
     
  20. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    substantial Pay thread can;t find it? - its ok... its here, must have posted in between merge.
     

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