RAOC - Burma & India - 1942 to 1945 - my fathers war diaries.

Hi
I'm trying to find the info I need to obtain copies of the war diarys re my dad's time in Burma where he served in the RAOC, eventually becoming a paid/acting WO1/Sub Conductor. Can anyone help me please? His service records are as follows:

Arrived in Bombay from Liverpool on 07/05/1942 where he reported to Lahore Depot. On 28/09/1942 he was posted to No1 Ordnance Detachment Type B - does anyone know what this was?. On 28/01/1943 he was 'evacuated from field to BMH Chittagong' until 03/06/1943 when he was posted to No4 I.O.B.Det.
He attended training courses at the British Infantry School in Sanger in Dec 1943 and rejoined his unit on 19/01/1944. He was medically evacuated again on 13/04/1944 for 2 months before being posted to No5 Indian Ordnance Beach Det on 07/06/1944 for about a year before returning to the UK.

Please can anyone shed any light on where my dad would have been in Burma? He never spoke about what happened and much to my regret, I was too young to be interested before he died - I was 24 when he passed away.

Thanks
Nick Richards

 

Hi Nick,

Can't really add anything to your post, but, I wondered if the name of Sanger, could actually be Saugor or Sauger. This was the training camp set up for original Chindit training in 1942 in the Central Provinces of India. There were all sorts of training classes and weapons experimentation, somewhere an Ordinance Warrant Officer would learn much or demonstrate to others.

Steve

 

I'll second Saugor...

Can you post an image of his records on the site please, Nick, as I'm presuming you have already obtained them, which is the first step on the road to knowledge... I doubt if I'll be able to help much either (43-44 is my research angle), but there are bound to be a few who may be able to help...

Kenny

 

Hi Nick, I found this mention of type B. Mobile Field Laundry and Bath Unit Type B. War Establishment III/293/1. December 1943. http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23793-royal-army-ordnance-corps/

 

Hello Jason, I know this is off this topic, but its the only way I can get in touch with you. I still have one of my books here for you. If no longer required that's fine by me- just a quick PM is fine.
Sylvia

 

Hi Nick,

7 years on lets hope you still have an email alert! I think i can help as my Grandfather was an instructor at Saugor Infantry Training Camp. Im currently doing some further research but if anything turns up ill drop back here!

 

Just in case Nick is still around.
I think these were actually Indian Army Ordnance Corps units, not RAOC.
1 Indian Ordnance Detachment (Type B) was certainly at Chittagong in 01/43, so he probably didn't have far to evacuate to BMH Chittagong.
I had not previously heard of 4 Indian Ordnance Beach Detachment, but it was a fair bet to exist since there was definitely a No. 3 and a No. 5.
5 Indian Ordnance Beach Detachment did the usual journey Imphal - Meiktila - Rangoon between 01/45 and 08/45 as a component of 45 Indian Beach Group. They then went to Malaya as 14 Army Troops and were disbanded in 08/46.
Don't ask me what a beach detachment was doing in the middle of Burma!

 

Thanks for this. I am back on the system now and will be continuing my research soon. I usually do it during the winter months when I have more time. Now I know a little more background, from members input, I need to re read his records as I'll have a bit more understanding of them - it won't be in 7 years time though!!

 

Thanks very much for this. I'm going to start digging again and will get back in touch. Most of the war diary records are hand written and tricky to decipher, but I've got a better background idea now.

 

Nick,
An OBD had 2 Sections, one to control and supply Ordnance stores to the formation it was supporting. The other Section did the same for ammunition. Most of the IAOC units had British Other Ranks (ORs), but most also had a number of RAOC officers and ORs attached to develop the slightly out dated stores handling methods and the strict central control of the IAOC.
I have all the war diaries for 5 Ind OBD for the period Nov 44 - Apr 46 but no mention of Richards. The unit only had 1, sometimes 2 Sub Cdrs, one was the chief clerk.
PM me with your details and I will send war diaries if you want them. They will show the movements of 5 OBD for the period your father served, mostly in support of 33 Corps I think. I have the diaries for No 1, No 3 and No 5 OBDs but there does not appear to be one for No 2 or No 4 OBDs.
You should upload your father's papers as forum members might be able to better interpret them and give you more feedback as they can be quite confusing to follow.
Regards, John

 

He's not been on the forum for nearly 2 years.
Perhaps if you send him a PM (conversation) he will get an alert by email and reply.

Lesley

 

Hi everyone,
I just obtained my great Uncle (Sandy Cross) military history documents from when he enlisted in 1940 to when he was killed in action in the field in Burma. They are excellent to have for my research and I enjoyed reading them - learning a lot. If only I could read some of the NCO’s names but too hard to make out the signatures
I read Little Men about NCO’s of 2 Border which is absolutely brilliant, amazing insight into probably exactly what my relative was doing. Still it would be great to read some actual diaries.
Has anyone successfully gained access to any war diaries for the Burma campaign?
Sandy served at home March 1940- May 1942
Then to India 28-5-42 until his death 2-2-1945 during the 4th phase Burma. He was posted to 2 battalion from 9th battalion in October 43 and seems to have gone between that unit & something called X11 (X2) about 3 times. Over a period of 4 months.
Any clues about what this means and any clues about how to see the diaries would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Gaynor

 

Hi Gaynor

All official histories of WW2 now freely available on archive.org.

The one covering the time at Burma when your great uncle was killed is this one.

The War Against Japan: Volume 4: The Reconquest of Burma (History of the Second World War United Kingdom Military Series)

The War Against Japan: Volume 4: The Reconquest of Burma (History of the Second World War United Kingdom Military Series) : Major General S Woodburn Kirby : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

British Army Casualty records on FMP also state he was wounded in Burma on 10/06/44.

Hope this helps

Gus

 

Gaynor,

Welcome aboard. It would be best to start a new thread, as this thread is about the RAOC and not the 2nd or 9th Border Regiment. Guidance is on: How to Start a new Thread / Edit Post / Upload Image

You can then copy your post to a new thread. Could you please add his full name, Date of Birth and Service Number? It will help others to help you.

Guides such as these two will help: WW2 Abbreviations and Acronyms | Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers and Abbreviations in Service Records (UK/ Army/ WWII) : For ref.

His CWGC record, which has his Service Number 4393698. See: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2085030/sandy-cross/

Gaynor you know this! There is an old thread that includes what happened to Sandy Cross, see Post 11 in: 2nd Border Regiment

 

Morning, hoping this thread is still alive as I've recently found that my Grandfather Herbert Rawcliffe served in the 5th Indian Army Beach Detachment. We know part of his duties in Burma were flying in Dakotas on supply drops.

I've pasted below a screenshot from his service records.

Thanks

Chris Hampson

 

Nick,

On a quick review this thread is dormant now. I looked at the opening author Nick, Gaynor and Joroti.

It is hard to see your grandfather was involved with air drops and a beach detachment. One of the features of WW2 in India-Burma was the growing air transport support provided, not just to the Chindits for example.

I would recommend if you are going to research him now you start a new thread, using this part of the forum: Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy

Please add his full name, Date of Birth and Service Number? It will help others to help you. Plus, images and scans are not indexed.

A visual guide to ‘Start’ is in Post 19 in: George William Knock

Guidance on uploading / scanning is within: How to Start a new Thread / Edit Post / Upload Image

 

Attached is a timeline (interpretation of the postings shown above).

Whoops: Missed one item. I BGH appears, normally BGH is British General Hospital, but the only reference site (aka Scarletfinders) shows 1 BGH was in Egypt. Not sure the number and initials are.

 

Sounds unlikely but it's definitely possible. My grandfather was roped into air dropping while a bombardier in an RA field regiment. In late 1944 his unit was stuck at Ledo as they were unable to get their 25-pounders into Burma until the Ledo Road opened. Nearby US airbases were running supply drops to Chinese troops in north Burma, the arty men were 'spare' so they were sent in shifts to act as loaders and 'kickers'. His first ever experience of flight was in the back of a Dakota over occupied Burma, booting crates out of the door, with no parachute or safety harness. He didn't go on a plane again until the 1980s!

There is a personal account from a REME craftsman called ‘Chalky’ White in the book To Stop a Rising Sun by Roy Humphreys:

Up early to pitch tents for soldiers coming out of Burma. We marched to the airstrip to be flown into Imphal but the flight was cancelled. Our kit was taken off us and we were put on board a Dakota loaded with supplies for a jungle drop. The overloaded aircraft struggled off the dusty airstrip. I shall never forget the sight of mountains towering above us as we flew very low over the jungle to locate our dropping zone (DZ). Other Dakotas were passing us on their way back to base, having dropped their supplies to the Chindits. We pushed the packages out at very low level. Not a very safe procedure for inexperienced troops.​

I have had a quick look on the Indian Archives, can't find a diary for No. 5 Detachment but did find one for No.1 Detachment (NAIDLF00533165). To my surprise they were up at Ledo at about the same time, involved in dropping to 36 Division (my grandfather's division). Some pages attached, doesn't help Chris much with his records but gives an idea of how a trained beach detachment might end up in a land-locked place messing around with planes.

Martin

 

Nick,

I have not searched here for 5 Beach Group, but am aware that several such units were cretaed to support amphibious operations, on the Arakan (Burma) coast and the planned invasion of Malaya (Operation Zipper).

Try an online search with: "Beach Group" + "Indian" site:ww2talk.com Using "5 etc" failed.

 

1 BGH probably refers to 1 Burmese General Hospital (1 BurGH). In March 1945 it was located at Imphal.


From: The Army Medical Services by F. A. E. Crew, F.R.S., Campaigns, Volume V, Burma (HMSO 1966)