Rangers At Cabanatuan & Other Significant Events

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I am doing a research paper on the raid on cabanatuan, my teacher wants us to pick a kind of topic that you can take one side or the other on and persuade the reader to be on your side. I am arguing that the raid at cabanatuan was the most significant event in WWII. I was wondering if you could give me other points of view on the most significant events. Like an article or a personal website or any other kind of website. Or if you could help me think of more reasons that cabanatuan was significant/necessary, that would be much appreciated!
Thanks So Much!

 

Hi Giambroni07,

I suggest you have a look at the reviews on this book or pick it up if you can
afford it as there are new & used available.


Ghost Soldiers: The Forgotten Epic Story of World War II's Most Dramatic Mission
by Hampton Sides.

Checking the reviews will give you an area of background to follow.

The link is quite long.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-...=283155&s=books

There is also a movie released "The Great Raid" if you can get a hold of it.

http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/index.php?p=759

 

My Apologies.

I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Good luck with your debate.

It is good to see that these topics are being returned to history in schools.

Tell us a little about yourself.

 

Well, I'm 18 years old, I go to Kent State University, Ohio
Just lately ive been so interested in World War II & i cant get enough of it! Ive already read Ghost Soldiers (great book) and im about to read staligrad which i hear is good too. Ive also read some of stephen ambroses books (which i dont really care for). And Im hoping to read many more different types! Other students in my class are choosing topics like abortion and things like that. I wanted to do the paper on something that im really interested in, so im doing WWII! Does anyone know of any other significant raids? I need to compare this one with others, instead of doing other significant events (which is too broad of a topic).
Thanks Again

 

What involvement do you want.

American only or other allied countries.

Ops involving POW's or other missions like commando etc.

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07@Sep 21 2005, 09:53 AM
Well, I'm 18 years old, I go to Kent State University, Ohio
Just lately ive been so interested in World War II & i cant get enough of it! Ive already read Ghost Soldiers (great book) and im about to read staligrad which i hear is good too. Ive also read some of stephen ambroses books (which i dont really care for). And Im hoping to read many more different types! Other students in my class are choosing topics like abortion and things like that. I wanted to do the paper on something that im really interested in, so im doing WWII! Does anyone know of any other significant raids? I need to compare this one with others, instead of doing other significant events (which is too broad of a topic).
Thanks Again
[post=39287]Quoted post[/post]

Welcome to the boards...you will enjoy them. More background on Cabanatuan can be found in books on POWs and Rangers in WW2. I suddenly can't remember the name of the book I have on the Rangers, but "Death March" by Dudley Knox will give you the entire story of the POW ordeal. Also try "We Band of Angels" for the nurses' side of the story.

What's your problem with Ambrose's books? Just curious.

Good luck with your classes at Kent State...that's a school that has made its own history. I believe that Thurman Munson, the great Yankee catcher, also attended Kent State.

 

actually i would like raids like this one, ones that involved POWs please. (i dont have a preference on countries on the allies side)

What's your problem with Ambrose's books? Just curious.

Well to me (I dont know if anyone else thinks this) but i think he is kind of biased. Yes, i did like band of brothers alot, but people that he interviewed said that he kind of switched their words around. It may not be true, who knows.

Well once again if anyone could help me, it would be much appreciated!
(Also thanks for the good luck!)

 

Originally posted by spidge@Sep 21 2005, 09:44 PM

http://www.army.mil/soldiers/feb95/p52.html

http://www.abmc.gov/cb.htm

http://www.west-point.org/family/japanese-...mp%20Photos.htm

http://www.us-japandialogueonpows.org/news.htm
[post=39312]Quoted post[/post]

Thanks! Those Sites Were Very Helpful!

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07@Sep 21 2005, 09:01 PM
actually i would like raids like this one, ones that involved POWs please. (i dont have a preference on countries on the allies side)

What's your problem with Ambrose's books? Just curious.

Well to me (I dont know if anyone else thinks this) but i think he is kind of biased. Yes, i did like band of brothers alot, but people that he interviewed said that he kind of switched their words around. It may not be true, who knows.

Well once again if anyone could help me, it would be much appreciated!
(Also thanks for the good luck!)
[post=39309]Quoted post[/post]

He has drawn fire for being biased in favor of the American style of warfare and American generalship, over British generals. He is very harsh on Montgomery. He also earned the wrath of the 42nd Infantry Division veterans, when he started to interview them about the liberation of Dachau, by asking about them massacring captured SS men. The 42nd guys left the room. He left them out of the book.

And he said too little about the liberation of Landsberg in "Band of Brothers." The mini-series filled in the gaps. However, many veterans are still unable to talk about what they saw in those camps.

Despite these faillings, he was a fine historian and a good writer. He got into the sense of battle, and seemed to understand the American generation he chronicled.

He should be read alongside Denis Whitaker and Robin Neillands.

 

Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Sep 23 2005, 11:17 AM
He has drawn fire for being biased in favor of the American style of warfare and American generalship, over British generals. He is very harsh on Montgomery. He also earned the wrath of the 42nd Infantry Division veterans, when he started to interview them about the liberation of Dachau, by asking about them massacring captured SS men. The 42nd guys left the room. He left them out of the book.

And he said too little about the liberation of Landsberg in "Band of Brothers." The mini-series filled in the gaps. However, many veterans are still unable to talk about what they saw in those camps.

Despite these faillings, he was a fine historian and a good writer. He got into the sense of battle, and seemed to understand the American generation he chronicled.

He should be read alongside Denis Whitaker and Robin Neillands.
[post=39358]Quoted post[/post]

Ok sorry, but this thread should have nothing to do with ambroses books. If you want to convince me of something, please convince me other other significant pow raids.
Thanks

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07@Sep 24 2005, 03:29 AM

Ok sorry, but this thread should have nothing to do with ambroses books. If you want to convince me of something, please convince me other other significant pow raids.
Thanks
[post=39371]Quoted post[/post]

Hold on Giambroni07.

I think you should think before placing your next post. You were the one who mentioned and disparaged Ambrose in your post on this thread and is therefore available for discussion and comment.

This forum is not "obliged" to assist you, it does so because of interest in the topic. Your tone in your last post is not condusive to that assistance being fulfilled.

 

Ok i apologize to everyone especially Kiwiwriter, the pressure of the paper was getting high and i was acting out of line. I just have one request, can we from now on just talk about pow raids? Im sorry i dont care for ambrose's books, but if you want to talk about it, i will make another thread about his books.

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07+Sep 23 2005, 01:29 PM-->(Giambroni07 @ Sep 23 2005, 01:29 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Kiwiwriter@Sep 23 2005, 11:17 AM
He has drawn fire for being biased in favor of the American style of warfare and American generalship, over British generals. He is very harsh on Montgomery. He also earned the wrath of the 42nd Infantry Division veterans, when he started to interview them about the liberation of Dachau, by asking about them massacring captured SS men. The 42nd guys left the room. He left them out of the book.

And he said too little about the liberation of Landsberg in "Band of Brothers." The mini-series filled in the gaps. However, many veterans are still unable to talk about what they saw in those camps.

Despite these faillings, he was a fine historian and a good writer. He got into the sense of battle, and seemed to understand the American generation he chronicled.

He should be read alongside Denis Whitaker and Robin Neillands.
[post=39358]Quoted post[/post]

Ok sorry, but this thread should have nothing to do with ambroses books. If you want to convince me of something, please convince me other other significant pow raids.
Thanks
[post=39371]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]

I don't find that comment particularly amusing or appropriate, young man.

If you're having trouble with your term paper, that's your problem. You asked for sources, I gave them to you. You said you had trouble with Stephen Ambrose, I inquired why, and answered your comments on Ambrose.

I see some university students are continuing the age-old tradition of acting as if they know everything just because they've moved away from home and taken that introductory class with a professor who shreds everything they learned in high school.

You're 18? Call me back for help when you're my age, 42. Until then, save the snotty attitude. In the interim, I suggest you start having more serious problems in life than a term paper, and learn how to cope with and face those issues like an adult.

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07+-->(Giambroni07)</div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry about the slam on the raid on cabanatuan thread, i am just under a lot of pressure for this essay.[/b]
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter+-->(Kiwiwriter)</div><div class='quotemain'>I don't find that comment particularly amusing or appropriate, young man.
If you're having trouble with your term paper, that's your problem. You asked for sources, I gave them to you. You said you had trouble with Stephen Ambrose, I inquired why, and answered your comments on Ambrose.

I see some university students are continuing the age-old tradition of acting as if they know everything just because they've moved away from home and taken that introductory class with a professor who shreds everything they learned in high school.

You're 18? Call me back for help when you're my age, 42. Until then, save the snotty attitude. In the interim, I suggest you start having more serious problems in life than a term paper, and learn how to cope with and face those issues like an adult.[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Giambroni07@
What is wrong with you? i apologized and you put me down? Ever heard of forgiving someone for their mistakes? Im sorry im 18, cant really help that and i admit i dont even come the tiniest bit close to knowing everything there is to know about the second world war. I said i was out of line. But if you want to keep holding that grudge, then fine, be like that<!--QuoteBegin-Kiwiwriter
I don't hold a grudge. I do think you deserved a spanking for that crack, and I administered it. Done.

Hopefully you will learn some important lessons from this incident, that will help you with your next crises in life. At the age of 18, smart enough to go to college, you should be old enough to know better. And you are not the victim here. I tried to help you, and you administered a punch to my gut.

As for forgiveness...that does not exist. It is a word politicians use when they are caught, to try to extricate themselves from trouble. The harsh reality of life is that nothing is ever really forgiven...anything you say or do can and will be used against you for eternity. Ask any schoolyard bully, any job supervisor, or any teacher, or your parents.

The reality of life is that we are burdened with perpetually dragging around our failures and mistakes until they slip us on the slab in the morgue. At that point, our mistakes are finally forgotten...and then we are.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I admited that i screwed up. No one is perfect here. So why cant we forgive and forget?

"Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you." -Ephesians 4:32

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07@Sep 25 2005, 08:42 PM
[Giambroni07]
Sorry about the slam on the raid on cabanatuan thread, i am just under a lot of pressure for this essay.


[Reply From Kiwiwriter]
I don't find that comment particularly amusing or appropriate, young man.

If you're having trouble with your term paper, that's your problem. You asked for sources, I gave them to you. You said you had trouble with Stephen Ambrose, I inquired why, and answered your comments on Ambrose.

I see some university students are continuing the age-old tradition of acting as if they know everything just because they've moved away from home and taken that introductory class with a professor who shreds everything they learned in high school.

You're 18? Call me back for help when you're my age, 42. Until then, save the snotty attitude. In the interim, I suggest you start having more serious problems in life than a term paper, and learn how to cope with and face those issues like an adult.


[Reply From Giambroni07]
What is wrong with you? i apologized and you put me down? Ever heard of forgiving someone for their mistakes? Im sorry im 18, cant really help that and i admit i dont even come the tiniest bit close to knowing everything there is to know about the second world war. I said i was out of line. But if you want to keep holding that grudge, then fine, be like that


[Reply From Kiwiwriter]
I don't hold a grudge. I do think you deserved a spanking for that crack, and I administered it. Done.

Hopefully you will learn some important lessons from this incident, that will help you with your next crises in life. At the age of 18, smart enough to go to college, you should be old enough to know better. And you are not the victim here. I tried to help you, and you administered a punch to my gut.

As for forgiveness...that does not exist. It is a word politicians use when they are caught, to try to extricate themselves from trouble. The harsh reality of life is that nothing is ever really forgiven...anything you say or do can and will be used against you for eternity. Ask any schoolyard bully, any job supervisor, or any teacher, or your parents.

The reality of life is that we are burdened with perpetually dragging around our failures and mistakes until they slip us on the slab in the morgue. At that point, our mistakes are finally forgotten...and then we are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I admited that i screwed up. No one is perfect here. So why cant we forgive and forget?

"Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you." -Ephesians 4:32
[post=39430]Quoted post[/post]


Because my experience has not been the words of Christ, but the words of the schoolyard bully, supervisor, teacher, administrator, and boss, kicking me in the teeth after I forgave him, sneering at me, "You forgave me, you stupid ****!" and beating me up all over again...and getting away with it. And nobody has ever forgiven me for my mistakes.

So I have learned...other people can get away with causing utter destruction to me and my family, but I am expected to forgive and forget that same destruction.

Forgiveness is just a shield by which those who use me as a punching bag -- and you are not the first person to ask me for help, get it, and then turn around and ruthlessly stomp me in public -- to evade the responsibility and accountability for their acts....and in some cases, even be rewarded for them.

So I don't believe in forgiveness. Now I believe in responsibility, accountability, and gravitas. You do what you have to do, not what you want to do. Winners do what they have to do. Losers do what they want to do. You do things properly, consistently, and accurately. You put your name on everything you do, and you suffer the blows or take the applause for what you have done. And then when you're done, you move on to the next assignment.

And everything is neatly written down in files, division officer's notebooks, Permanent Record Cards, job evals, student evals, employee evals, and is held for or against you as a giant balance sheet. For all time. Forever. That's why there are filing cabinets, clerks, forms, carbon paper, mimeograph machines, entries in triplicate, report cards, and so on.

When you can show me where on any of those documents there is an entry for "forgiveness," I might be interested in the subject.

 

You really need to know christ, let me share with you his compassion. Please even if you still believe that, just give this site a try. This goes for anyone. I dont want to fight any more.

Getting To Know Jesus' Love

Thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread and if want to, contribute more! lol

 

Originally posted by Giambroni07@Sep 25 2005, 10:40 PM
You really need to know christ, let me share with you his compassion. Please even if you still believe that, just give this site a try. This goes for anyone. I dont want to fight any more.

Getting To Know Jesus' Love

Thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread and if want to, contribute more! lol


[post=39434]Quoted post[/post]

Sorry, mate, I'm Jewish, and observant. Led services in the Navy in Japan, Antarctica, and New Zealand, was a paid-up member of the Canterbury Hebrew Congregation in Christchurch, New Zealand, and I write the Annual Holocaust Observance here in Newark.

And one thing I do know about Christianity is that Christians have had a nasty habit for the past 2000 years of killing Jews -- my ancestors and relatives -- in the most ghastly ways...in the name of Jesus's love. They seemed to enjoy it.

All I want is a little bit of respect for what I do. I don't see why that's so hard for people to give. I always seems easier for them to just beat me senseless and ridicule me for being stupid enough to help them out.

 

Enough is enough. Make peace or leave each other alone.
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