RAF man quest

Discussion in 'General' started by heatherannej, May 13, 2017.

  1. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    I have a RAF quest on my hands. I have an "H. Bennett" among 6 WW2 names on an insurance company's memorial. I know, from the company's history, that all the men were in the R.A.F. I can identify all of them from the CWGC search facility ... bar one - H. Bennett.

    There were 13 RAF Bennetts with initials that include "H". I have eliminated four, by finding newspaper articles that gave their occupation before the war. This Bennett needs to be in Insurance because he worked for the 'Essex and Suffolk Equitable Insurance Society Ltd'. Although Colchester was the HQ (perhaps in name only because the main administrators were London based) there were other branches so this Bennett could've lived anywhere.

    Are there any tips for discovering a RAF man's occupation please? Many thanks, Heather
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Heather

    This looks to be a tricky one with so little information to go on. I dont see you would be able to find his service details as you cannot pin down which one.
    Other possible sources might be marriage certificates or probate records perhaps - but thats assuming he married and/or made a will.
    Other may have better ideas

    TD
     
  3. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Thanks TD ... I'll keep at it ... that's how I eliminated the four, when I thought I didn't stand a chance :) Heather
     
  4. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    I wonder although referred to as a WW2 casualty,the fact that the "H Bennett" quoted cannot be located on the CWGC data base might indicate that the death occurred outside the qualifying date of 3 September 1939 and 31 December 1947.

    Probably the best way forward would be to narrow down the death certificate of "H Bennett".

    The other line of inquiry would be to ascertain and contact the successor company of the Essex and Suffolk Equitable Insurance Society Ltd who might be able to provide further information on their employee.
     
  5. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Hi Harry ... I have found 13 RAF H Bennetts on the CWGC data base (some with additional initials after) - it is just the problem of finding the correct one. There were 10 WW1 men and they have been easy to identify through CWGC and Ancestry but the later war is more difficult. As it is, with the other 5 RAF men, all I will be able to do is to give the CWGC details initially. Whereas, when I put the memorial online, I have been able to create profiles and add images for the WW1 men.

    I have the book about the history of the 'Essex and Suffolk Equitable Insurance Society Ltd.' until 1952 ... and all men are named but no personal details about them are given :-( The Society has gone from one successor company to another since 1911 ...

    I eliminated four RAF men because I discovered articles in the British Library online newspapers but the quest goes on. Would a death certificate give a pre-war occupation? Thanks.
     
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello Heather

    The Essex and Suffolk Accident Indemnity Society (CLC/B/107-23) was established in 1907 and merged with Essex and Suffolk Equitable Insurance Society in 1909. The latter company merged with Atlas Assurance Company (CLC/B/107-04) in 1911 which in turn was acquired by Royal Exchange Assurance (CLC/B/107-02) in 1959. Royal Exchange Assurance merged with Guardian Assurance to form Guardian Royal Exchange Assurance in 1968.
    Now AXA
    AIM25 collection description


    Atlas Assurance War Memorial
    Atlas Assurance Co appears to only have WW1 casualties

    is it worth you posting the possibles so far

    regards
    Clive
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  7. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Hi Clive ... yes, I know I may have to visit and go through some of those documents - just to see what can be found. Bernard Drew's book 'The Fire Office' being the history of The Essex and Suffolk Equitable Insurance Society Limited 1802 - 1952’ (to commemorate the 150th birthday of the company) is a very comprehensive history - thankfully, the book recorded the names of the employees who were killed in both wars but no personal details.
    Thank you for taking the trouble to reply, it is appreciated. Heather
     
  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Heather

    A death certificate would only reveal the occupation of a serviceman who had left the services after the war end and had been deemed to have died from the effect of war service before the cut off date of 31 December 1947.At death, he would be a civilian.

    Such a death would be recognised by the CWGC as a war death and would qualify for a war grave.(There were similar examples for those ex Great War servicemen who had died as civilians from the effect of war service before the cut off date of 31 August 1921)

    Pre and post WW2 war service death certificates outside the qualifying period would not indicate civilian occupations and such information would depend on media articles such as newspapers and the like although part time service roles such as Territorial and AAF etc, I would have thought would have included occupational status.

    In your first paragraph #1,I read it that you had located all the Bennetts from the CWGC data base, bar the "H Bennett" quoted which would be so if the death occurred outside the qualifying period.I can now see that the task is to match "H Bennett" with his civilian occupation.

    I look forward to see what you can reveal further.
     
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    A word of caution re a death certificate.

    I have a Godwin- Monck headstone states died in RAF and also the death cert states in service with RAF and died in service.
    He is not recognised by CWGC (despite me trying to get him)
    update from CWGC below
    I am writing regarding the possible commemoration of Aircraftman 2nd class I F C Godwin-Monck.

    The documentary evidence you kindly provided was submitted to the MOD for their consideration. However they have confirmed that he is not entitled to commemoration by the Commission.

    After consulting his records, the Air Historic Branch concluded the following:

    “He was discharged from the Royal Air Force with an illness which was prevalent in this country at the time and was not attributable solely to his service, which was only in the United Kingdom. The statement on the headstone that he ‘died by enemy action’ and the statement on the Death Certificate that he died ‘due to war operations’ are therefore both incorrect.”


    regards
    Clive
     
  10. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Hi Harry ... My explanation let me down in that #1 paragraph - it would have been clearer if I had said that I had identified the other 5 WW2 RAF employees on the CWGC site but not the "H Bennett" - of which there are 13 ... sorry ... I have led you up the garden path!

    Thanks for the info regarding death certificates ... it has saved me a lot of trouble!! Heather
     
  11. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    I managed to get a CWGC headstone for a cousin of my late father - I doubt if I could have done it if his Service Record had not survived. It was noted that he had been ill but "kept on duty" from a Feb until a Sept ... then discharged and sent home to die - which he did 4 months later. So I could prove my case.
     
  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Heather
    we have a number of very helpful members here
    post the possibles and see where we go


    regards
    Clive
     
  13. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Here goes then, Clive... I would like to think it was one of the first four, who was my insurance man but I cannot rule out that he had other initials (because there is an exception to the rule with the WW1 men) .... Heather

    HARRY BENNETT. Flying Officer/Pilot. No: 190245, Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 214 Sqdn. Born 1920. Died 04/03/1945. Son of Harry and Chrissy Ivy Bennett, of Islington, London. Awards: D F C. Buried Islington.

    HARRY BENNETT Sgt. No: 549557. Royal Air Force 144 Sqdn. Born ? Died 05/10/1940. Runnymede.

    HARRY BENNETT Born c1904. Died 24/02/1944. Son of Robert and Lucy Bennett, husband of Violet May Bennett, of Dagenham. Buried Barking.

    HENRY BENNETT Born c1900. Corporal. RAF. No: 340047. Died 22/07/1941. Son of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Bennett; husband of Elsie Bennett, of Saffron Walden. Buried Saffron Walden.

    HARRY JAMES BENNETT Born c1915. Leading Aircraftman. No: 1155209. RAFVR. Died 06/02/1947. Son of Henry and Emily Bennett, of Stoke-on-Trent; husband of Rose Bennett, of Fenton. Buried Stoke-on-Trent.

    HARRY JAMES BENNETT Born 1924. Flying Officer. Air Bomber. No: 153741. RAFVR. Died 24/07/1944. Buried Cambridge.

    HENRY EDWARD BENNETT Born c1913. Flying Officer. Air Gunner. No: 145380. RAFVR 460 (R.A.A.F.) Sqdn. Died 02/01/1944. Son of Henry Edward and Violet May Bennett; husband of Freda Bennett, of Collier Row, Romford. Buried Berlin War Cemetery. SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 13 JULY, 1943 3161, ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE, Henry Edward BENNETT (145380). 4th June 1943.

    HENRY JAMES THOMAS BENNETT Born 28 Jun 1921. West Ham. Sgt. Pilot. No: 658278. Died 11/06/1943. RAFVR 104 Sqdn. Son of Thomas and Florence Louisa Bennett, of Upminster, Essex. Buried Enfidaville War Cemetery.

    HUBERT BAPAUME BENNETT Born c1917. Aircraftman 1st Class. No: 620296. RAF. Died 10/06/1940. Son of Stephen and Elizabeth Bennett, of Wallingford; husband of Edith May Bennett, of Abingdon. Buried Abingdon.
     
  14. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    An update ... I am wondering if it is the first man ... because I have looked the book out and it reads:

    "... One member of the staff gained the Distinguished Service Cross and was also mentioned in despatches; another was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, and six men, all of whom were in the Royal Air Force, made the supreme sacrifice. They were H. Bennett; S. D. Hill; E. W. Paine; J. D. Sargeant; J. R. Thompson and A. L. T. Todd,

    HARRY BENNETT. Flying Officer/Pilot. No: 190245, Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 214 Sqdn. Born 1920. Died 04/03/1945. Son of Harry and Chrissy Ivy Bennett, of Islington, London. Awards: D F C. Buried Islington.

    Do you think that I have answered my own question? :) ......... Heather
     
  15. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    BBC - WW2 People's War - A Bomber Crews Story

    "Unbeknown to Frank, on 3/4th March 1945, Bennett and crew had gone on operations. His navigator on this occasion was “Barney” Barnfield, who replaced Paddick, and who had now recovered from frostbite six months previously.
    Some men from Crosbie’s crew made up the numbers. Patrick Healy took Frank’s place, McDermid took “Jock” Murdoch’s place as waist gunner, Lindsay Odgers, an Australian, was substitute for Nessner and Leslie Billington was flight engineer.
    On arriving back at Oulton, at least one Junkers 88 came back with them, and Frank could hear it shooting up hangars and whatever. “Benny” was on the circuit and about to land but he had to do another circuit as a damaged plane was given priority. Almost at the same time as the other plane landed, Bennett, with landing lights on and wheels down, was hit. The plane, on fire, hit some trees and blew up. Bennett was alive but badly injured when picked up but later died of his injuries. Les Hadder, William Briddon, Frank Hares and all those mentioned above were also killed on 4th March 1945. McDermid and Church were the only survivors.
    The pilot, Harry Bennett DFC was 24 years old. He was buried in Islington cemetery, Middlesex, London."

    The whole article is worth a read.
     
    CL1 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  16. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Thanks very much alieneyes ... that's much appreciated. Heather
     
  17. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    As an aside.

    This aircraft was a Fortress 111 of 214 Squadron engaged on ECM duties and was a victim of the Luftwaffe operation Gisela...a large scale intruder operation with the task of catching returning Bomber Command operational and HCU training aircraft from the Thames Estuary to North Yorkshire.

    The Luftwaffe force consisted of about 200 Junker 88 night fighters and accounted for nearly thirty B.C operational and HCU aircraft either lost or written off with the Luftwaffe losing 25 Junker 88s.

    Interestingly the modus operandi was to fly low over the North Sea under the Chain Home Low radar with radio silence.They were instructed not to attack any bomber aircraft over the sea as to deny any early warning of intruders to the RAF.

    Recently at Scampton,I visited the CWGC plot there and revisited the graves of two German crews who are buried there.Pilot F.W Conse must have created mayhem on the night of 3/4 March 1945 during the intruder raid for he had already conducted a raid on the Waddington airfield bomb dump, brought down a No 460 Squadron Lancaster Serial No NG 502 at Langworth, out from Binbrook on a training exercise.....then strafed the car of a ROC observer, J P Kelway killing him while he drove on the Welton -Hackthorne road on his way going on duty, then finally crashing into telephone wires at Welton.

    I have to say the churchyard in general looked its usual self in the spring and the CWGC plots superb.
     
    alieneyes likes this.
  18. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Thank you Harry ... that's an interesting "aside". If I can add this sort of information, it gives a deeper insight. I could well be back in connection with the other five men because I can see that I may be able to glean similar information for them all.

    Many thanks to one and all ... Heather
     
  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  20. heatherannej

    heatherannej Junior Member

    Ahhhh ... thank you CL1, that's lovely. I contributor to Find A Grave and I have sought and been given permission to use several images for the WW1 men in this 'Essex and Suffolk" project so WW2 images will be next. I will seek out the owner of this image .... thanks again, Heather
     

Share This Page