Dismiss Notice

You must be 18 or over to participate here.
Dismiss this notice to declare that you are 18+.

Anyone below 18 years of age choosing to dishonestly dismiss this message is accepting the consequences of their own actions.
WW2Talk.Com will not approve of, or be held responsible, for your choices.

RAF ground crew

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by bananaflapjack, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. bananaflapjack

    bananaflapjack New Member

    Good evening,

    I hope everyone is well.
    I am looking for information about RAF technical ground crew and their experience of war.

    I have spent hours searching and have come across:
    The Halton apprentice and Cosfords use during WW2, maintenance units and the use of ferry pools.
    But I'm finding it difficult to find any true detail, having searched for maintenance units and fitters.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on where to look.

    I am wanting to compile research starting at training, onto postings and experiences / duties.

    Thank you for your time,
    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    Hannah
    :)
     
  2. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

  3. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    You don't say whether your interest is generally academic or to get a better idea of issues that may have influenced a particular individual. In the former case you'd be wanting a resource where such experiences have been aggregated from a wide field (e.g. BBC - WW2 People's War) but, if the latter, you might do better to home in on the units/areas in which they served ...

    One of the more obvious resources suggested by TNA's 'Royal Air Force operations' guide, especially if homing in on units, is the ORB (war diary) of any relevant. The nearest cause I've had to do this was to investigate the maintenance aspect of a North Sea training loss (FWIW presumed due to twin engine failure in an almost-new Wellington) from 3[C]OTU based at RAF Cranwell. In 3[C]OTU's ORB, to give you an idea of what you may find in such records, were these 2 entries I just happen to have transcribed in my notes:
    • 21 Apr 1942 "A new method of maintaining aircraft serviceability has been inaugurated by W/Cdr Cooper. Various tradesmen have each been allocated to one aircraft and are responsible for its serviceability. This method is proving very satisfactory and with these light evenings work is often carried on until dusk, and on a whole every effort is being made to increase yet further, the day and night flying hours, so that pupils may leave this Unit with a greater total of O.T.U. flying hours to their credit."
    • 11 Sep 1942 "It is now a fairly frequent practice to dispatch aircraft on long navigation exercises as soon after dawn as practicable so that the aircraft may be available for afternoon flying and night flying." (clearly impinging on groundcrew being expected to attend to them betweentimes)
    And just remember, should you want copies of TNA records and can't get to Kew yourself, some of our members offer their digital photography services at advantageous rates.

    My inexpert :twocents:,
    Steve
     
  4. bananaflapjack

    bananaflapjack New Member

    Thank you both for your replies. My interest is academic, satisfying my interest in aviation and engineering.
    I find it rather saddening the lack of information which exists for these individuals who were so vital to the effort.
    I will continue my search.

    Hannah
     
  5. Hi Hannah
    I am researching my Dad's war story; he was a LAC and served in Repair and Salvage Units in India and Burma. I have found a book called "The Bamboo Workshop" very useful for explaining the amazing salvage feats they undertook but it doesn't go into much technical detail
    Woodpeckerchick
     
  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Coming in a little late on this.

    I think you have to study the servicing system introduced by the Royal Air Force when the new Command structure came into being in 1936.Before that there were basic servicing arrangements in place from the era when military flying first took place but the introduction of the high speed monoplane,closed cockpit aircraft and the emergence of improved and larger engines required a greater in depth servicing/flight checks to cover the various facets of aircraft operation and serving frequency.Moreover the tasks also covered the arming up of an aircraft for a operation and ensuring that the aircraft was set in a safe state on returning from operations.

    These servicing/flight checks were standardised across the various Commands,Bomber Command,Fighter Command,Coastal Command etc but varied as required by the aircraft type and engine.

    The organisational structure on operational stations comprised three wings.

    Flying Wing,comprising of squadrons...aircraft aircrew and groundcrew plus equipment and consumables to enable the squadron to go to war in wartime.Control of aircraft movements and management of the airfield through the Control Tower....Fire fighting and ambulance support and control.

    Technical Wing composed of groundcrew who would responsible for discharging the engineering schedules necessary at a frequency as a aircraft built up its flying hours.Modifications would also be undertaken by Technical Wing but it was the norm for an aircraft manufacturers to have their own technical specialists to overcome any design deficiencies and required modifications from the experience of the operational performance.

    Administrative Wing covering station administration of mess halls,clerical functions,discipline and the like.

    On a RAF operational station, servicing schedules were categorised into 1st Line and 2nd Line Servicing.

    Ist Line Servicing was carried out by squadron groundcrew on their aircraft.It covered all trades and composed of a Pre Flight Check and a After Flight Check on a return from operations.During the Pre Flight Checks,any snags (defects) would be rectified.....any snags which would be adverse for the aircraft and its crew would lead to a declaration of the aircraft as being "u/s" (unserviceable) There was little cover from inclement weather and aircraft would be serviced outdoors on their dispersals,hangers being rarely utilised. On some Bomber squadrons could have up to 30 aircraft...24 as the core and the rest as spare aircraft. On days when a serviceable aircraft had not been flown,a daily inspection would be carried out to ensure that the aircraft state of readiness was maintained.

    Overall,Ist Line Servicing was regulated by the requirement for all trades to have declared that their equipment had been checked and the aircraft made ready for operations.The declaration took the form of the completion of Form 700 which each tradesman responsible for the checks would sign.When all appropriate trades had signed the Form 700,the pilot would then by signature, accept the receipt of the aircraft as being fit for flying.

    On return from the operations any snags (defects/damage sustained during the operation would be listed by the pilot on the Form 700.

    Outside the station organisation,designated MUs would cover areas to recover crashed aircraft and depending on the damage sustained would direct the aircraft to scrap or if categorised as repairable,the aircraft would be transported to a number of aircraft manufacturer specialist repair centres for repair.Lightly damaged aircraft,capable of being repaired on the airfield as appropriate to the resources and technical skills available.MUs also had technical responsibilities outside these tasks and were located at dedicated centres,usually in the west of the country as security against air attacks...the MU was usually where new aircraft were received from the manufacturer then after being given final checks were then issued to operational squadrons.

    2nd Line Servicing would be the responsibility of Technical Wing....would carry out Minor and Major servicing....engine changes,airframe engineering checks/ servicing and as stated, modifications/installation of new equipment intended for improvement of aircraft performance and its safety in flight.

    I think that there is an abundance of anecdotal evidence available on the accounts of groundcrew involvement with RAF Squadrons.These are usually found in squadron histories and articles in aviation magazines.
     
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The passing of Tony Iveson reminds me of the raid on the Tirpitz in the autumn of 1944.There was a number of attempts to deny this capital battleship to the Kreigsmarine. But for the raid of 29 October on the Tirpitz, it was decided that the Lancasters of No 9 and No 617 Squadrons would be fitted with extra fuel tanks,a Heath Robinson affair involving a Mosquito 224 gallon drop tank and a Wellington overload fuel tank,fitted in the bomb bay, making an overall fuel carrying capacity of over 2400 gallons.To reduce weight,the MU turrets were removed as was some armour plating.

    However the Engineering Officer of No 5 Group considered that with the Tallboy load of 12000 lbs and over 2400 gallons of fuel take off safety might be compromised.He then made the decision to convert the Lancaster (B1 and B3s) Merlins to the Merlin 24,a more powerful engine and effectively create the Lancaster non standard Lancaster B1 Special for delivery of the Tallboy weapon.

    These last minute engine changes on 36 aircraft were conducted on the two squadrons over 24 hours and reflect the contribution of the groundcrews in effecting these changes... then the engine testing to follow and the aircraft prepared for ops.... would have taken place without cover,probably on the dispersals. Not known if RR were also involved in the engine changes.

    Would be interesting to source information on this task from one of those involved
     
  8. Orwell1984

    Orwell1984 Senior Member

    As my grandfather was RAF ground crew, I developed my own interest in the subject. I found searching under "Erk" (slang for ground crew) turned up a few more titles than searching the proper name!

    Here's an assortment of the titles I turned up.

    Royal Air Force Ground Crews: An Erk on Malta. by Jack Paternoster (privately published and very hard to find)

    An Erk's Eye View of WW2: An Airman's Recollections of RAF Elsham Wolds During World War Two: A Former 'instrument Basher' Remembers Life on a Bomber Squadron in WW2 by Ted Mawdsley
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Erks-Eye-View-WW2-Recollections/dp/1903953383/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384182937&sr=1-1&keywords=Erks

    How I Got My Knees Brown: The Overseas Experiences of an Erk (RAF Serviceman) from Devonshire During World War Two By Rupert Extence
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Got-Knees-Brown-Experiences/dp/1846831342/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384182989&sr=1-6&keywords=Erks
    (not much groundcrew experience but interesting on training)

    An Erk Goes to War by Bertram Hughes
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Erk-Goes-War-Bertram-Hughes/dp/0902830643/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384183140&sr=1-8&keywords=Erks

    Erk's Progress: One Man's War - RAF Memories By Jack Carey
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Erks-Progress-One-Mans-Memories/dp/0952228653/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384183197&sr=1-9&keywords=Erks
    (Haven't seen this one so can't comment on its contents)

    Aces, Erks and Backroom Boys by Edward Smithies
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Backroom-Boys-Personal-Britains-PAPERBACKS/dp/0304359270/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384183308&sr=1-12&keywords=Erks
    (Probably the easiest to get your hands on as there are a lot of cheap secondhand copies out there)

    Another book of interest in a tangential way is RAF Ground Support Equipment Since 1918 by Fred Adkin which looks at equipment the ground crew would use so touches on their tasks
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ground-Support-Equipment-Since-1918/dp/1853105627/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384183391&sr=1-1&keywords=RAF+ground+equipment

    Good luck in your research!
     
    JohnnyFrost44 likes this.
  9. JohnnyFrost44

    JohnnyFrost44 Junior Member

    Hi

    I have a very detailed record of my grandfather's work on Malta during the war. Outlining plane by plane the work he undertook. He worked at Kalafrana, and then in civilian garages in Silema, then Luqa and Safi. Where they cannabalised planes together from crashed wrecks, before returning them to sqds. I attach some detail of a Mod that people may find of interest.

    Stuart
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Incidentally the robbing of spares from disabled aircraft was task that was carried out continually on operational squadrons.These donor aircraft were known as "hangar queens".

    Aircraft never entered hangars unless absolutely required for maintenance for it was far save as a precaution to have aircraft dispersed at dispersals around the airfield.....somewhat different from the RAF expansion period where hangars were constructed close together and represented concentrated targets for enemy aircraft.

    One of the best insights into groundcrew activities including the interface with aircrew and air operations can be found in the publication of Snaith Days which relates the events that took place over three years at RAF Snaith(Pollington) during the Second World War.
     
  11. JohnnyFrost44

    JohnnyFrost44 Junior Member

    They started out at Kalafrana, until this was bombed out. Then appears that they commandeered motor garages, and set up underground workshops.

    I understand that using parts from donor planes still goes on as we speak in the RAF. But the scale of what happened on Malta and the nature of the siege made it perhaps unique. My grandfather was in the RAF from 1925, and took part in active service in Iraq in the 20's, and in the battle of Britain, he thought what they did on Malta was out of the ordinary. Some times three of four planes were brought together to make on functioning one from the wrecks, with Spitfire VC being converted to VBs etc.
     
  12. jettisoning

    jettisoning Member

    SNAITH DAYS - Keith S Ford - had this book since the early 1990s - cannot recommend it enough ! excellent sections on various non-flying personnel - interesting photographs
     
  13. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Lancaster at War
    Books 1 thru 5 carry a good range of articles written by the different ground crew/admin trades as well as the aircrew.
     
    JohnnyFrost44 likes this.
  14. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Not seen it mentioned above:

    The Forgotten Ones: The Story of the Ground Crews by ACM Sir Philip Joubert de la Ferte
     
  15. George Westbrook

    George Westbrook New Member

    My father was a RAF fitter stationed in sedes & salonica. I have his photos here took during the war of planes & ground crew etc,. I also have a small diary where he wrote the Names & Address of fellow crew members
     
    JohnG505 and Little Friend like this.
  16. Little Friend

    Little Friend Senior Member

    d0aecb074bb011c364d3bcfc5ab53b44.jpeg 9cf488400b27e08102874489a7befd16.jpeg 11ee7f0f8298f77c056d2ba549bc52b1.jpeg

    I took these photographs at RAF Halton, Bucks. June 2013.
     
    JohnG505 likes this.

Share This Page