RAF - Deciphering WW2 record of service & death by misadventure.

Hello from Australia.

I hope you are all keeping well and safe in these very strange times.

This week has been exciting for me as after a very long wait I have finally received my grandfather. Alfred Ernest Nicholl's RAF records. He was born on 20 November 1900 but by bumping up his age by a year or so served with the East Kent Regiment as a 16 year old during WW1 - he was lucky to survive a gunshot wound received a short time after arriving at the Somme but continued his enlistment for the duration of WW1.

He enlisted with the RAF in 1921 and served for 24 years until, when a Warrant Officer, he was run over by a taxi on Carriage Drive, Blackpool in 1943, suffered a broken leg - tragically he died at the RAF base hospital at Weeton, Lancashire from a fat embolism, as a result of his injury, a week later. He left a wife and 2 young children, Alfred James Nicholl aged 12 and my mother Louisa Nicholl aged 11. His death was a life changing tragedy for his family. One of the family stories is that he died while saving a child who had run onto the road, but he was hit by the taxi. There was an inquest about his death with a verdict of "Death By Misadventure". I am have tried many avenues, including Blackpool Family History Centre, and Lancashire Records Office to obtain a copy of the inquest report or a newspaper article about his death to see what actually happened, but with no luck. I was really hoping his RAF records would contain the inquest report, and I asked for it, if it was available - but no luck there either. Very disappointing.

I have attached my grandfather's RAF records and I have been studying them, but I am hoping that someone might be able to help me decipher them and in particular work out where he may have been stationed at various times as my mother had memories of living overseas and had a couple of pictures of herself and her brother aged about 3 & 4 with their father in Egypt.

Any assistance would be gratefully received.

Regards,

Carolyn

 

I tried in an investigation two years to obtain a Coroners Inquest report and hit a "brick wall". Ostensibly they are available after 100 years. Very few seem to have accessed one. See: PG47 (Campo 47) escapees and the suicide of the NZ Camp CO

Based on the linked investigation there are a couple of options: 1) did he die alone? Was a fellow comrade / NCO with him who also died? 2) a press report on his death in his local newspaper; 3) is there a published Will?

I see the CWGC record has hi Service Number as 346022 and there was another death recorded three weeks before of a Flying Officer with 193 Squadron. The details sheet refer to RAF Padgate and the churchyard being used for all their deceased. From: Search Results | CWGC

This forum indicates RAF Padgate was a basic traing camp: RAF Padgate.

Bingo! An entry by a Peter Nicholl in 2018:

From: RAF Padgate (SRC Padgate)

Just spoken to Peter and you are in touch with him already, so call ended nicely.

I think his unit's War Diary might have a mention of the accident and death

I am sure the RAF sleuths will be along to help with deciphering.

 

Edit wrong info

 

Different Gent, from the number on the service file this is him

WARRANT OFFICERALFRED ERNEST NICHOLL
Service Number: 346022
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Royal Air Force

Date of Death
Died 25 March 1943

Buried or commemorated at
PADGATE (CHRIST CHURCH) CHURCHYARD

Grave 141.

United Kingdom

 

The Egypt part was his early period in the RAF

After induction he was sent to Training Squadron for initial training - he had mustered as ACH or general duties airman. From here he was posted to No.207 Bomber Squadron but this unit was in the process of transferring to Turkey as part of the British forces in the Greco Turkish War.

Greco-Turkish War (1919–1922) - Wikipedia

No. 207 Squadron RAF - Wikipedia

As the squadron was in the process of move he was attached to No.39 Squadron for a short time until embarkation and disembarking in Istanbul and joining No.207.

A short hospitalisation period and then posting to No.208 Sqn also located at San Stefano who were operating in the Army Co-operation role.

No. 208 Squadron RAF - Wikipedia

Yeşilköy - Wikipedia

He then would have returned to Eqypt with the Squadron as they finished Turkish tasking.

The war diary for the squadron is open for free download if you register at The National Archives

Squadron Number: 208 Summary of Events: Y | The National Archives

Return to UK is HE Home Echelon/Establishment posting in 1928.

Ross

 

Hi David and CL1 and AB 64

Thank you very much for responding - very much appreciated.

Yes, my grandfather AE Nicholl's service number was 346022 and that is his gravestone. My grandmother, Lily Louisa is also named on the stone - it is interesting to see that her name appears to have been added without the knowledge of the Commonwealth Graves.

Disappointing that it seems to be very difficult to obtain a copy of an inquest report. I was really so hoping I would get it with AE's RAF records - but not to be. I have done a great deal of searching for it (via the internet) , including searching for any press report of the accident - all with no luck (so far). I have also received some wonderful assistance in the search (thank goodness for the internet) -

The Lancashire Records Office advised me that "it is very rare for original inquest files of this period to have survived. In 1943 Blackpool would have been part of the Preston coroner's district, but sadly our holdings of inquest files from Preston do not begin until 1954"

The Blackpool Local History Centre emailed " Despite a thorough search of the local historic newspapers we have been unable to locate a report of the accident or the inquest. Due to paper rationing newspapers were sparse and this would explain why there was not a report of the tragic accident".

It must be somewhere !!

I hadn't considered that any other serviceman may have been involved in the accident in Blackpool.

Anyway, thank you so much for taking an interest. Regards, Carolyn.

 

As said W/O Nicholl died in service while detached to RAF Blackpool hospital while reported to be on the permanent staff at RAF Padgate No 3 (RC) Recruitment Centre. This opened in 1939 where inductees to the service were kitted out and then posted to other units for Basic Training... square bashing. Padgate in turn also carried out Basic Training of a number of recruit inductees.

Interesting to note the added CWGC comment on their records that W/O Nicholl's wife is remembered on his CWGC without their "consultation".Also his wife Lily Loiuse died 8 August 1988 aged 87 years

Casualty Details | CWGC

I would think that W/O Nicholl as a prewar regular would have an interesting service career to unfold.

Unfortunately the service record of W/O Nickoll is difficult to read. However it looks like W/O Nicholl's trade was ACH, a Group V Trade which he appears to have maintained through his career.His basic daily pay as a Warrant Officer would be 11 shillings and sixpence.

From his record it appears he saw service on No 207 Squadron and went abroad to San Stephano with the squadron disembarking at the Turkish airfield on the north shore of the Sea of Marmara on the west side (European) of the Dardanelles Strait virtually opposite to Istanbul on the Asian side. Unable to clearly see the dates from the service record but reliable sources indicate the squadron left for Turkey on 29 September 1922 and disembarked at San Stephano on 11 October 1922.The squadron remained there for almost a year, arriving back at RAF Eastchurch on 1 October 1923.

If W/O Nickoll was still with the squadron it was based in the Sudan in the early 1930s to 1936.

I note that W/O Nickoll's Great War wound is listed on his RAF service record as G S W (Gun Shot Wound )......... ...posterier....right thigh.

 

Try British newspaper archives . You get 3 free searches

 

Hi Ross & Harry

Thank you very much for responding with such wonderful details. I now have a lot to add to AE's page in my family tree. AE seems to have been in hospital quite a few times and for significant periods of time. I am going to try and match up the information you have given me to see where he was hospitalised. I have AE's WW1 records and they are interesting.

I found him on a 1938 electoral roll as living in married quarters at Berkshire and then he turns up in 1940 at Rollerstone and on his death certificate 1943 as living at 89 Fernshead Road Padgate. I see from a post on WW2talk that my uncle Peter Nicholl said that AE was seconded to to No.1 Convalescent Depot in Blackpool but I couldn't see that in the RAF records sent to me? This "Blackpool" issue is quite puzzling.

Thank you for the tip about where to find the war diary for AE's unit, I will try to access that and see if there is any reference to the Blackpool accident and subsequent death.

I've uploaded a photo of AE with my mother Louisa and her brother Alfred James when they were aged about 3 & 4 and living in Egypt. After living quite well overseas, they found it quite hard when AE was recalled back to England and they all had to give up that lifestyle.

I was surprised that after 24 years in the RAF, his records were just the 4 pages. I was expecting quite a bit more.

Thank you all again for such wonderful help. If you think of anything else I would be grateful to receive it and add it to my tree. I am adding these posts to the tree as notes. Regards, Carolyn

 

Just realised that the ages of the children did not tie up with a photo before 1928.

This is associated with his second overseas posting circa 1932/37 when he was posted to Armoured Car Section Aden, No.2 Armoured Car Company then No.45 (Bomber) Squadron.

No. 2 Armoured Car Company RAF - Wikipedia

His service record is all that was retained by order of Parliament - considered that the index wrapper was sufficient for pension purposes - all other documents in the service file were destroyed as instructed on specific aniversary of the airman leaving service.

The Rollestone part from your finds is mirrored with an Attachment to 3 Wing 3 Recruit Centre on the second page of his postings record.

Airmen's Convalescent Depot was his final posting on this page
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7162294

Ross

 

thank you, Ross

With all the help from the people on WW2 Talk I am putting together an amazing amount of info tracking down his movements over the years. I have attached a copy of a shipping passenger list from 01 08 1928 which shows Corporal AE Nicholl sailing back to UK from Port Said, Egypt with a last residence of Iraq and new residence of RAF base Uxb ridge.. He married my grandmother on 24 November 1928.

Now some of what I have is, including leave:

• 1922 - Turkey 1923 Iraq?
• 1928 and before Port Said Egypt & Iraq
• 1928 - Uxbridge
• 03 08 1928 - 20 10 1928 Overseas leave
• 1930 - Uxbridge - birth of son Alfred James
• 1931- Uxbridge - birth of daughter Louisa
• 20 08 1932 - 16 09 1932 Embarkation leave
• 1933 - Haifa Palestine - my mother Louisa told me she was living here in 1933 but she could be wrong
• 18 11 1934 - Middle East (where?)
• 01 07 1937 - Posting of choice Mostrosa?
• 3 01 1937 - Harwell
• 1938- MQ RAF Base Berkshire (electoral roll)
• 1939- wife & children living with extended family at Bethnal Green. AEN not registered this address.
• 31 03 1940 - Rollerstone?
• 1943 - Accident Carriage Drive Blackpool
• 1943 - Fernhead Road,Padgate, Warrington ( usual address - Death Certificate)

I am getting a bit of the handg of reading the records now, thanks to your help.

 

Generally he was Turkey and Egypt upto 1928.

From 1932/33 to 1936 he was Palestine and Trans-Jordanian with a return to Egypt Heliopolus for 1937

I say generally as being posted to Armoured Car Companies/Wing meant operations over the length of the British overland supply routes so detachments to Iraq not ruled out.

The only way to say with some certanty is to look at the Operations Record Books for each unit to see when for each main base, detachment and operation eg

No.6 ACC
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5318787

AC Wing
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4099757

AC Section Aden
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4099764

No.2 ACC
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4099761
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4099763

Given his rank unless it is part of a movement order he is unlikely to be personally mentioned but at least this will build a picture of events around him.

Ross

 

Airmen's Convalescent Depot was his final posting on this page
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7162294

Does this posting mean that AEN was sick/convalescing?

 

Possibly, given his extended hospitalisation periods in Aden, Palestine and Transjordan.

Does the family history say anything about poor health on return 1938/39?

Ross

 

Carolyn,

You refer to 'Rollerstone', this will be Rollestone and Wiki has a brief history: Rollestone - Wikipedia Plus: RAF Rollestone

 

RAF Harwell was opened in very early in 1937 and by February 1937 the station was in total control of the RAF.

Flt Sgt Nickoll must have been among the first RAF contingent to be posted in to the newly handed over station. Harwell had Airmens MQs so that would agree with the entry on the 1938 electoral roll.

However 1939 shows the family living in Bethnal Green. The reason for that is the AM policy on the outbreak of war was that MQs would be vacated for civilian dependants safety but equally MQs were requisitioned to accommodate the increasing numbers of RAF personnel being posted to stations.

AEN would be still based at Harwell but would be a member of the Sgt's Mess which normally would include accommodation but depending on the pressure on billeting, he with Sgts might have been accommodated as a group in individual MQs.

Rollerstone would be RAF Rollestone, 5 miles west of Amesbury in Wiltshire..... RAF Anti Gas School in Flt Sgt Nickoll's service there.

Rollestone hosted the RAF School Training (observation balloons) since the end of the Great War. The same role was also undertaken for two years from 1916 under War Office control. In early 1939 the RAF Balloon unit was transferred to RAF Cardington.Then in June 1939,the station accommodation was increased....the threat of gas warfare was thought to be possible and to meet this threat the RAF Anti Gas School was established at Rollestone .The training would remain running until the war's end. Its task was to train selected RAF personnel in Anti Gas procedures.

Spraying from light aircraft for the course syllabus was undertaken from Boscombe Down and Netheravon with Porton Chemical Defence Experimental Station being involved in the courses.