RAF 78 Squadron

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Merritt, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. Merritt

    Merritt Junior Member

    Hi There! I have a trip planned to northern Germany later this year, and plan to visit Becklingen War Cemetery to honour the memory of my uncle who is buried there. I've just recently learned that my sister has received (on loan) a box full of his memorabilia, which I am anxious to go see in the near future. She has already sent me a scan of a long letter that he wrote to a young poltician named John Deifenbaker, whom he had met just prior to heading overseas. (Deifenbaker would later serve as Prime Minister during the 60's.)

    The letter was written shortly after he arrived in England and it has certainly made an impact on me: articulate, thoughtful, hopeful and yet foreboding. I guess all of the mixed feelings that a 25 yr old would feel in that situation. Anyway, sorry for the long pre-amble.....I will cut to the chase.

    Wilfrid (Wilfred) Bruce Smith; RCAF, arrived in England in March 1941 with the rank of Sgt. Pilot. He served with 78 Squadron RAF, and as I recall my late mom telling me, he was shot down during a night time raid possibly at Kiel, on May 29 1941. His body was recovered sometime later, and now rests in Becklingen. The entire crew was apparently lost. It was Bruce's first mission.

    I am interested in learning about the history of 78 Squadron, and in Bomber Command in general. I have ordered V. Holland's book "Nobody Unprepared" which is about 78 Sqdn. I would be grateful if anyone else has further information on 78 Sqdn, Bruce or his crew members (I don't have their names). If I come across any interesting info from his items I will gladly share it here.

    Thanks in advance.

    Neil
     
  2. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Hi Neil

    Name: SMITH, WILFRED BRUCE Initials:W B Nationality: Canadian Rank: Sergeant (Pilot)Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force Unit Text:78 (R.A.F.) Sqdn. Age: 25 Date of Death: 29/05/1941 Service No:R/62188 Additional information: Son of Hugh Wilson Smith and Maggie Gertrude Smith, of Hawarden, Saskatchewan, Canada.Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:21. A. 8.Cemetery:BECKLINGEN WAR CEMETERY


    28-29 May 1941.

    78 Squadron.
    Whitley V Z6484 EY-
    Op: Kiel.

    Crew.
    Sgt. A T. Copley +
    Sgt. W B. Smith RCAF +
    Sgt. A. Cooke +
    Sgt. A. Gregory +
    Sgt. D R. Strickland +

    The aircraft took off from Middleton St. George at 2355 hrs. All are buried in Becklingen War Cemetery, Soltau.

    Bomber Command Losses Vol.2 - W R. Chorley.


    The Kiel raid of 28-29 May 1941

    Fourteen Whitley's to bomb Tirpitz encountered thick cloud and storms. Only three aircraft claimed to have bombed Kiel, which reports 'Considerable rain but luckily no bombs' One Whitley lost.

    Bomber Command War Diaries - Middlebrook / Everitt

    Regards
    Peter.
     
  3. Merritt

    Merritt Junior Member

    Hi Neil

    Name: SMITH, WILFRED BRUCE Initials:W B Nationality: Canadian Rank: Sergeant (Pilot)Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force Unit Text:78 (R.A.F.) Sqdn. Age: 25 Date of Death: 29/05/1941 Service No:R/62188 Additional information: Son of Hugh Wilson Smith and Maggie Gertrude Smith, of Hawarden, Saskatchewan, Canada.Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:21. A. 8.Cemetery:BECKLINGEN WAR CEMETERY


    28-29 May 1941.

    78 Squadron.
    Whitley V Z6484 EY-
    Op: Kiel.

    Crew.
    Sgt. A T. Copley +
    Sgt. W B. Smith RCAF +
    Sgt. A. Cooke +
    Sgt. A. Gregory +
    Sgt. D R. Strickland +

    The aircraft took off from Middleton St. George at 2355 hrs. All are buried in Becklingen War Cemetery, Soltau.

    Bomber Command Losses Vol.2 - W R. Chorley.


    The Kiel raid of 28-29 May 1941

    Fourteen Whitley's to bomb Tirpitz encountered thick cloud and storms. Only three aircraft claimed to have bombed Kiel, which reports 'Considerable rain but luckily no bombs' One Whitley lost.

    Bomber Command War Diaries - Middlebrook / Everitt

    Regards
    Peter.

    Peter, thank you very much for the information. Sounds like they must have hit some bad weather, fortunately the others all made it back. If it just says "lost" I guess it's uncertain if it was a crash or a shoot-down......same result. It may have happened near or over land, as the entire crew was located; although that's just my conjecture.

    Interesting....I can't find D R Strickland anywhere in the CWGC records; however there is a D D Strickland killed on that same date, but buried in Rhodes, Greece! Is that a different Strickland, or is there another possible explanation I wonder?? The other four crewmen are all buried side by side at Becklingen.

    Cheers!

    Neil
     
  4. Merritt

    Merritt Junior Member

    We have solved the mystery of D R Strickland. The name is actually Stickland, and he is indeed buried beside the other crew members.
     
  5. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Neil,

    Sorry about the confusion over Stickland, finger trouble on my part.

    Peter
     
  6. Merritt

    Merritt Junior Member

    No worries.....I really do appreciate your input. My sister found a copy of the Squadron Report for May 28, 1941 and scanned it to me.

    ’14 aircraft detailed for operations. 2 attacked the primary target (KIEL); 1 attacked the alternative target (HUSUM); 3 abandoned the operation owing to several electric storms, landed at Abingdon will full bomb loads. 2 failed to located primary target owing to severe icing conditions and returned to Base after jettisoning bombs. 1 took off at 2155 hrs to attack Kiel. Since that time nothing further has been heard of either aircraft or crew. 6 did not take part in the operation. Weather experienced on this occasion was the worst encountered by the members of this Squadron during months of operational flying.
    On28/29 May 1941, Whitley V Z6484 took off at 2155 hrs, from Middleton St George, to attack the “Tirpitz” at Kiel, Germany. Nothing further was heard.
    The crew was:
    Sgts A T Copley (Pilot): W B Smith (Pilot); A Cooke (Observer); A Gregory (W. Op/Air Gnr.) and D R Stickland (W.Op./Air Gnr.).

    If that was indeed my uncle's (and likely the entire crew's) first operation, I would have to say it was a tough one for baptism of fire. Really bad weather plus well defended target plus rookie crew......sounds tough to me anyway.

    I am going to have to do some research on the Whitley, it would be nice to know some of the technical facts about the aircraft; navigational systems, reliability, etc. I'm sure there is info out there, either on these pages or elsewhere on the net. I suppose I could even make a trip to the Library....:D.

    Cheers!

    Neil
     
  7. DukeOfEarle

    DukeOfEarle Junior Member

    Hi,

    My great uncle, Flight Lt. Reginald Frank Williams, also served in the 78 Squadron and was shot down 8 or 9 October, 1943. I have found his record at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, but I was hoping some of you have more information on the squadrons operations in early October, 1943. I too am going to Germany later this year and hope to visit Reichswald Forest War Cemetery where he is interred.

    TIA,
    Colin
     
  8. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Hi Colin,

    Welcome to the forum. I've managed to come up with the following info which might be of interest to you.

    8-9 October 1943

    No.78 Squadron.
    Halifax II LW315 EY-G
    Op. Hannover.

    Crew.
    F/L. R F. Williams +
    Sgt. W. Quinn +
    P/O. L G. Heaney +
    P/O. S. McManus RCAF +
    Sgt. R T. Johnson +
    P/O. G L. Hughes RCAF +
    Sgt. N F. Page pow

    The aircraft took off from Breighton at 2242 hrs. Crashed at Harsewinkel 12 km north west of Gutersloh. Those who perished lie in the Reichswald Forest War cemetery.

    BCL. Vol.4 W R. Chorley.

    Hope this is a help.

    Regards
    Peter.
     
  9. DukeOfEarle

    DukeOfEarle Junior Member

    Much appreciated, Peter. I can see why you've become a legendary member. You're a great resource. :)
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    78 Squadron, Linton-on-Ouse

    Whitley V N1361. Crashed at Ochamps during night sortie early am. F/Lt I.L. McLaren, killed. Sgt J.R. Mirfin, Sgt J. Buckfield, LAC J. Spencer, and AC1 H. Wilkinson captured. Aircraft EY*F a write off.

    ATB's Battle of France.
     
  11. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    78 Squadron, Linton-on-Ouse

    Whitley V N1361. Crashed at Ochamps during night sortie early am. F/Lt I.L. McLaren, killed. Sgt J.R. Mirfin, Sgt J. Buckfield, LAC J. Spencer, and AC1 H. Wilkinson captured. Aircraft EY*F a write off.

    ATB's Battle of France.


    Worth cross referencing before posting.....

    The above loss was Whitley V N1361 GE-F No.58 Squadron. Records show that it was F/L I L. McLaren who belonged to No.78 Squadron.
     
  12. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Worth cross referencing before posting.....

    The above loss was Whitley V N1361 GE-F No.58 Squadron. Records show that it was F/L I L. McLaren who belonged to No.78 Squadron.

    At the time this aircraft was on loan to No.58 Squadron from No.78 Squadron and was with them when lost.

    Regards
    Peter.
     
  13. martynj

    martynj Junior Member

    Hi all.

    My Grandfather (Douglas James Marriott) was a Flight Engineer on board Halifax Q-queenie flying out of Breighton at around the same time. Thankfully he survived long enough to pass on in his sleep after a good scotch a couple of years ago.

    I have a bit of information on him, I believe he flew 39 raids in some 9 months, but anything beyond that is quite sketchy. if anyone could point me in the direction of other research sources / had any information - I'd be really greateful.

    Regards

    Martyn
     
  14. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Hi Martyn,

    Welcome to the forum.

    No.78 Squadron RAF went to Breighton on 16 June 1943, staying until January 1944.

    According to a statistical summary of No. 78's wartime effort in the squadron ORB, No. 78 flew, a total of 6,337 sorties comprising 6,017 bombing sorties and 320 mine laying sorties; made 302 bombing raids and bombed 167 different targets; dropped approximately 17,000 tons of bombs - 7,000 tons (i.e. more than a third of the total) between D-Day and VE Day; successfully laid 1,064 mines; and destroyed 31 enemy aircraft (11 more were classified as "probably destroyed ") and damaged 35. The squadron's own losses totalled 182 aircraft.

    Have you applied for your grandfathers service record? There will be quite a lot of info on there.

    Service records - RAF

    Also worth a look is this book, had my copy for some years and found it to be most useful

    Air Force Records for Family Historians Public Record Office readers' guide: William Spencer: Amazon.co.uk: Books

    And another.....

    Air Force Records: A Guide for Family Historians: Amazon.co.uk: William Spencer: Books

    Wishing you luck with your research

    Regards

    Peter.
     
  15. 270BBR

    270BBR Junior Member

    Duke Of Earle, my wifes uncle was Griff Hughes that was on LW315 and also killed. We have some info that you may not have from Mr. Page who die in 2002.
    Gerald
     
  16. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Hi There! I have a trip planned to northern Germany later this year, and plan to visit Becklingen War Cemetery to honour the memory of my uncle who is buried there. I've just recently learned that my sister has received (on loan) a box full of his memorabilia, which I am anxious to go see in the near future. She has already sent me a scan of a long letter that he wrote to a young poltician named John Deifenbaker, whom he had met just prior to heading overseas. (Deifenbaker would later serve as Prime Minister during the 60's.)

    The letter was written shortly after he arrived in England and it has certainly made an impact on me: articulate, thoughtful, hopeful and yet foreboding. I guess all of the mixed feelings that a 25 yr old would feel in that situation. Anyway, sorry for the long pre-amble.....I will cut to the chase.

    Wilfrid (Wilfred) Bruce Smith; RCAF, arrived in England in March 1941 with the rank of Sgt. Pilot. He served with 78 Squadron RAF, and as I recall my late mom telling me, he was shot down during a night time raid possibly at Kiel, on May 29 1941. His body was recovered sometime later, and now rests in Becklingen. The entire crew was apparently lost. It was Bruce's first mission.

    I am interested in learning about the history of 78 Squadron, and in Bomber Command in general. I have ordered V. Holland's book "Nobody Unprepared" which is about 78 Sqdn. I would be grateful if anyone else has further information on 78 Sqdn, Bruce or his crew members (I don't have their names). If I come across any interesting info from his items I will gladly share it here.

    Thanks in advance.

    Neil

    For further information on No 78 Squadron,contact the No 78 Squadron Association Secretary,who is:

    Group Captain Ivor F Easton (Retired)
    2 Orchard Lodge
    Boverton
    Llandwit Major
    South Glamorgan
    CF6 9UH

    The information is in the public domain.

    Regards

    Harry.
     
  17. Eddie Gurmin

    Eddie Gurmin Junior Member

    Hello
    I was in 78 Sqaudren from November 1940 until may 41. I was in 4 group. My pilot was Chris Cheshire we went from 78 Sqaudren to 76 Sqaudren and we were shot down on the 13th of August 1941. I was on my 29th trip.

    If you want to know more please get intouch with me.
     
    Harry Ree likes this.
  18. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Neil, Colin, Martin and Eddie,

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    You are absolutely correct about our Legendary member, Peter.
    He is a real star with RAF matters.

    Eddie,
    I am sure that you will have had many experiences with 29 trips and I for one would hope that you may care to share some with other forum members.


    Regards
    Tom
     
  19. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Hello Eddie,

    Welcome to the forum, we would indeed like to hear more of your war time exploits. In the meantime the following, relating to your crash, is taken from 'Bomber Command Losses Vol.2 - Chorley..........


    12-13 August 1941

    76 Squadron.
    Halifax I L9530 MP-L
    Op. Berlin

    F/L. C C. Cheshire pow
    Sgt. P H T. Horrox pow
    Sgt. R C. Wash pow
    F/S. G J. Smalley pow
    Sgt. E C. Gurmin pow
    Sgt. A T. Niven +
    CWGC :: Casualty Details
    F/S. W. Woods +
    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    Took off 2135 hrs Middleton St.George. Shot down by flak near Parnewinkel, a small town roughly midway between Bremerhaven and Hamburg. The two airmen who died are buried in Becklingen War Cemetery, Soltau. F/L. Cheshire was the brother of Leonard Cheshire VC, who later commanded 76 Squadron.


    The Berlin raid of 12-13 August 1941.

    70 aircraft - 40 Wellingtons, 12 Halifaxes, 9 Stirling's, 9 Manchester's. The Air Ministry building in the Alexander Platz was the aiming point but only 32 aircraft reached and bombed in the Berlin area and 9 aircraft - 3 Manchester's, 3 Wellingtons, 2 Halifaxes, 1 Stirling were lost.

    'The Bomber Command War Diaries' - Middlebrook/Everitt
     
  20. Merritt

    Merritt Junior Member

    For further information on No 78 Squadron,contact the No 78 Squadron Association Secretary,who is:

    Group Captain Ivor F Easton (Retired)
    2 Orchard Lodge
    Boverton
    Llandwit Major
    South Glamorgan
    CF6 9UH

    The information is in the public domain.

    Regards

    Harry.

    Harry, it has been a while since I checked this site. Thanks very much for that information.

    I did in fact make my visit to the Becklingen War Cemetery last summer; it was a very moving experience for me. My uncle and his crew (along with 2300 other young men) are resting peacefully side by side in the tranquil countryside overlooking the Heath of Luneburg.

    Thanks to the power of the internet I was fortunate enough to make contact with the nephew of the pilot, Alfred Copely. I sent him some photos from the cemetery for which he was very grateful, as he has never visited the site. I have a lot of respect for those young men, and all who endured those difficult times.

    Cheers

    Neil
     

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