RA Service records help

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Aaron Simmons, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    Good afternoon,

    I have been researching my great grandfathers war history for a little while now and i have recently managed to get his service records off the Army.

    I am have a little trouble being able to read some of them because of the hand writing, hopefully someone will be able to help, there is also a few abbreviations that i cannot find on the list that is on this site.

    The other information i am currently researching is where his units were and what they were doing at the time in history.

    I have attached photos of the record and what i think it says.

    Regards

    Aaron

    5/6/39 Attended & Posted

    25/8/39 Embodied

    8/9/39 Appointed

    1/9/39 (unable to make out)

    28/10/39 relinquishment

    31/3/41 Posted to 228 Bty with effect from 1/4/41 – Newchurch

    21/12/41 admitted to C.R.S? 214 Fd Amb R.A.M.C. Ipswich on 21/12/14 Before Dinner Hours

    31/12/41 Transferred from CRS 214 Fd Amb R.A.M.C. to military hospital Colchester on 31/12/41 after dinner hours

    6/1/24 Discharged from Colchester military hospital 6/1/41 Ipswich

    9/1/42 Awarded 21 days detention by OC 113 Fd Reg AR & forfeits £1/1/10 for loss of kit for the following offence Sec 15 (1) AA W.O.A.S. from 1300Hrs 19/12/41 - 1615Hrs 19/12/41 Absent 3Hrs 15 Minutes Sec 24 (2) AA losing by neglect his regimental necessaries Sec 40 AA conduct to the prejudice of military discipline in that he at parade at 7/1/42 did appear on parade in an untidy and dirty condition date of offence 19/12/41 date of award 7/1/42 committed to IC Colchester detention barracks 9/1/42

    27/1/42 released from detention barracks, Reed Hall, Hutted camp Colchester on 27/1/42 returned to duty on 27/1/42

    31/1/42 Posted to draft R.F.A.O.H

    3/4/42 Embarked UK 17/2/42 posted Middle East 17/2/42 Disembarked Middle East 3/4/42

    21/5/42 Posted to 74th Fd Reg With Effect From

    8/7/42 I/Posted to 296 Bty

    29/7/42 Proceed course 29/7/42 – 3/8/42

    2/9/42 Granted SPP

    9/4/43 Admitted Hosp & posted to XL (II) CCS 10/4

    14/4/43 Discharged Hosp admitted 7 Con depot

    27/4/43 Discharged Con depot 27/4

    27/4/43 Posted to unit from XL (II) CTBA 155 T/C

    1/7/43 Disp for Unknown destination (H) (Sicily)

    4/8/43 To X(ii)

    16/9/43 Posted to 74 FD from X(iv)

    16/9/43 SOS ME7 BNAF

    19/10/43 Embarked central med forces for UK

    5/11/43 Disembarked from overseas

    23/12/43 Awarded Africa Star with 8th Army Clasp

    25/5/44 posted to 103 RFTS Crps & TOS X(iv) list

    3/7/44 posted from 208 CRC to 31 RHU

    14/9/44 posted 74 Fd Reg & TOS X(i) list

    19/8/44 posted from 31 RHU TOS X(i) list from X(iv) list

    14/9/44 posted to 74 Fd Regt from HQ RH 50(N) div and TOS from X(i) list

    9/6/44 embarked for BLA

    9/12/44 NWE – Admitted Hosp to X(ii) list

    9/12/44 Sunburn to foot (not sever)

    5/1/45 discharged from hosp & TOS X(ii) list

    4/6/44 Embarked UK for NWE

    6/5/45 Posted to 39 RHU TOS X(IV) list

    19/6/45 Posted from X(iv) list 39 RHU TOS 190 Fd Regt RA

    23/7/45 A7S group 20c challenged but upheld suffice & (Unreadable) on AF.B103 date of birth (AF.E 501) 31 May 1913 authority RA (Fd) Reg D5/REL/1002/1

    13/9/45 medically examined & found fit for further service A.I.

    19/10/45 Posted to X (Viiia) list for class a release to SOS unit WEF 19/10/45

    23/10/45 Embarked NEW for UK & SOS X(Viiia) list and B.A.O.R. on class A release WEF 23/10/45
     

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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Aaron,

    You have actually done a good job - well done.

    Here are my suggestion re your P1

    5/6/39 Attended & Posted - ATTESTED & POSTED - APPARENTLY TO C BATTERY OF DUPLICATE OF 57 FIELD REGIMENT

    25/8/39 Embodied - OK

    8/9/39 Appointed - L/Bdr = LANCE BOMBARDIER

    1/9/39 (unable to make out) - FIT FOR H & A - MAY MEAN FIT FOR "HOME & ABROAD" SERVICE

    28/10/39 relinquishment - OK - MEANS HE REVERTED TO THE RANK OF GUNNER

    THERE IS A 2 YEAR GAP IN HIS RECORD BUT BY THIS TIME HE IS SERVING IN 113 FIELD REGIMENT RA - UNLESS THIS UNIT WAS THE DUPLICATE UNIT FORMED FROM 57 FIELD IN 1939.

    31/3/41 Posted to 228 Bty with effect from 1/4/41 – Newchurch OK NB POSTED FROM 227 BATTERY

    21/12/41 admitted to C.R.S? 214 Fd Amb R.A.M.C. Ipswich on 21/12/14 Before Dinner Hours - CRS WILL LIKELY BE CASUALTY RECEPTION SECTION - Fd is FIELD

    31/12/41 Transferred from CRS 214 Fd Amb R.A.M.C. to military hospital Colchester on 31/12/41 after dinner hours - OK

    6/1/24 Discharged from Colchester military hospital 6/1/41 Ipswich - OK Rejoined 228 Battery @ Ipswich

    9/1/42 Awarded 21 days detention by OC 113 Fd Reg AR & forfeits £1/1/10 for loss of kit - OK £1.54p today's currency but worth a lot more then!

    for the following offence

    1. Sec 15 (1) AA W.O.A.S. from 1300Hrs 19/12/41 - 1615Hrs 19/12/41 Absent 3Hrs 15 Minutes - OK

    2. Sec 24 (2) AA losing by neglect his regimental necessaries - OK

    3. Sec 40 AA conduct to the prejudice of military discipline in that he at parade at 7/1/42 did appear on parade in an untidy and dirty condition - OK but your first "parade" is Ipswich

    4. date of offence 19/12/41 - OFFENCES 1 & 2 - I would guess he took ill and was sent to hospital whilst in detention awaiting an appearance before OC 113 FR re these matters

    5. date of award 7/1/42 - OFFENCE 3 & DATE OF LIKELY PLANNED DATE APPEARANCE BEFORE OC 113 FIELD REGIMENT RE MATTESR FROM DECEMBER

    5. committed to IC Colchester detention barracks 9/1/42 - YOUR IC COLCHESTER IS 1 CORPS - APPRECIATE COLCHESTER IS MENTIONED ON P2

    Hopefully other members will be along shortly to help out. I'll try to revisit the remaining pages.

    I'm sure you'll find information on his units from other members - I would amend the title to include his Field Regiment postings as that will attract RA unit experts.

    Good Luck

    Steve Y
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  3. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    Hi Steve thank you so much for your help!

    I have a few more items that the army sent me so hopefully these will also help!
    I have also added a couple of pictures of my late great grandfather.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Thanks for sharing Aaron.

    I note you've posted his attestation/statement of services package. In total you've posted the "usual" package of forms provided by MOD.

    I see 113 FR was his original unit 1939 till he went to ME.

    I see he appears to have taken part in 2 beach invasions - on Sicily & Normandy - so lots there for you to research.

    His Medals were issued in the 1940's.

    I'll try and get back to the B103's tomorrow.

    Steve
     
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  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Aaron,

    Your great grandfather originally joined 57th (Home Counties) Field Regiment, RA, out of which was morphed/derived the 113th Field Regiment, RA. The 113th was based in the UK until 1942, first in the 12th (Eastern) Infantry Division and then from 1940 in the 56th (London) Infantry Division.

    He was sent overseas on 14 February 1942 and after arrival in Egypt posted to the 74th (Northumbrian) Field Regiment, RA, on 21 May 1942. He remained with the 74th for the duration of the fighting (in Europe) in May 1945 and shortly thereafter.

    The 74th Field Regiment, RA, were Divisional troops of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division and usually supported the 151st Infantry Brigade of 50 Div (being the 6th, 8th & 9th Bns Durham Light Infantry). The 50 Div was the most battle experienced and hardened British Infantry Division in WWII. You great grandfather would have had a hard war from joining them, including the Gazala Gallop and retreat to the Alamein line, the second (and famous) Battle of El Alamein, Wadi Zigazou (Wadi Zigzag or the Mareth Line), perhaps Wadi Akarit, Operation Husky (the invasion of Sicily, where 50 Div was an assault Division and the fighting there), Operation Overlord (D-Day where again 50 Div was the assault Division on Gold Beach during the invasion of Normandy and the fighting thereafter all the way up to 'The Island' just short of Arnhem, The Netherlands; including Operation Market Garden).

    50 Div won Victoria Crosses during the Gazala Gallop, at Wadi Zigzag, at Wadi Akarit and on D-Day (the only one awarded on D-Day) This is unsurpassed by any other British Infantry Division in WWII.

    When 50 Div was returned to the UK as a training cadre in mid-December 1944, the 74th Field Regiment, RA, was transferred to the 49th (West Riding) Division, with which it finished its war.

    This link will fill in some of the background about 50 Div: 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division - Wikipedia

    Best,

    Steve.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  6. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    Wow Steve and Steve ! Thank you so much! Looks like I have even more to research and read about!!
     
  7. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    9/1/42 Awarded 21 days detention by OC 113 Fd Reg AR & forfeits £1/1/10 for loss of kit - OK £1.54p today's currency but worth a lot more then!

    Slightly wrong.
    £1 = 100p. 1/- = 5p. 6d = 2.5p. 4d = 2.946p.
    So just short of £1.10.5p

    In 2016, the relative value of £1 1s 10d from 1942 ranges from £44.70 to £228.20.
    Measuring Worth - Purchasing Power of Pound
     
  8. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Thanks for the correction......I'm old enough to remember pre decimal currency so my only excuse for the misreading of the figures is failing eyesight!

    Steve Y
     
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  9. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Steve, I can sympathise, I'm in the same boat. :)
     
  10. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Aaron,

    I'm sure you will find many internet references and library book relating to your great grandfathers units involvement in the Invasions of Sicily & Normandy and the rest of his active service.

    Here are my suggestions about P2 of his B103


    27/1/42 released from detention barracks, Reed Hall, Hutted camp Colchester on 27/1/42 returned to duty on 27/1/42 - OK

    31/1/42 Posted to draft R.F.A.O.H - I READ THE LOCATION AS NOTTS - PRESUMABLY A HOLDING CAMP SOMEWHERE IN NOTTINGHAMSHIRE. THE CODE IS MERELY A CODE - USUALLY STAMPED ON ALL THEIR KIT. PROBABLY SAIKED FRIM LIVERPOOL ON A CONVOY DOWN THE WEST COAST OF AFRICA WITH A FEW DAYS DOCKED IN SOUTH AFRICA BEFORE SAILING UP THE EAST COAST TO EGYPT.

    ITS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A PERIOD OF DETENTION TO ALMOST IMMEDIATELY PRECEDE AN OVERSEAS POSTING. BOTH MY GRANDFATHERS HAD SIMILAR WW1 OVERSEAS POSTINGS AFTER GETTING INTO "MISCHIEF".

    3/4/42 Embarked UK 17/2/42 - OK

    FADED ENTRY LOOKS LIKE POSTED X LIST (Xiv) - LOOK ON THE FORUM FOR X LISTS - IT IS ARMY SHORTHAND SHOWING A SOLDIERS CURRENT POSTING/LOCATION

    posted Middle East 17/2/42 - OK

    Disembarked Middle East 3/4/42 - OK HE WOULD HAVE BEEN POSTED TO THE RA BASE DEPOT AS A REINFORCEMENT AND FOR A PERIOD OF ACCLIMATISATION - "UNTIL HIS KNEES WERE BROWN"......

    21/5/42 Posted to 74th Fd Reg With Effect From - OK

    8/7/42 I/Posted to 296 Bty - OK I LIKELY MEANS INTERNALLY OR INTER/POSTED

    29/7/42 Proceed course 29/7/42 – 3/8/42 - THERE IS MENTION ON ONE OF THE OTHER FORMS THAT HE WAS A TRAINED SANITARY ORDERLY - THIS MAY HAVE BEEN HIS TRAINING COURSE. FIELD HYGIENE WAS IMPORTANT IN N AFRICA WHERE FLIES WERE EVERYWHERE ETC

    2/9/42 Granted SPP - OK I SHOULD KNOW THIS ACRONYM AS I'VE SEEN IT MANY TIMES PREVIOUSLY BUT CAN'T BRING IT TO MIND AT THE MOMENT - MAY BE SERVICE or STANDARD PROFICIENCY PAY - ELIGIBLE FOR A PAY RISE AFTER 3 YEARS FULL TIME SERVICE?

    9/4/43 Admitted Hosp & posted to XL (II) CCS 10/4 - ANOTHER REFERENCE TO THE X LISTS (XL) THIS TIME HE IS POSTED TO Xii WHILST IN HOSPITAL AFTER ADMISSION TO CCS - CASUALTY CLEARING STATION - ANNOYINGLY NEITHER ARE NUMBERED. LIKELY SOMEWHERE IN TUNISIA AS 8TH ARMY ADVANCED TO MEET UP WITH 1ST ARMY.

    14/4/43 Discharged Hosp admitted 7 Con depot - OK - YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND LOCATION OF NUMBER 7 CONVALESCENT DEPOT IN APRIL 1943

    27/4/43 Discharged Con depot 27/4 - OK

    27/4/43 Posted to unit from XL (II) CTBA 155 T/C - NOTES POSTING TO UNIT FROM Xii LIST VIA 155 TRANSIT CAMP - CTBA = CEASED TO BE ATTACHED

    1/7/43 Disp for Unknown destination (H) (Sicily) - OK. - CONVOY SAILING OPERATION HUSKY LANDING ON SICILY 10th JULY 1943

    4/8/43 To X(ii) - POSTED TO Xii LIST AGAIN WHILST ON SICILY LIKELY DUE TO WOUNDING/INJURY OR SICKNESS. NO MENTION OF LOCATIONS OF HOSPITALS ETC

    16/9/43 Posted to 74 FD from X(iv) - RETURNED TO UNIT FROM X(iv) LIST

    16/9/43 SOS ME7 BNAF - STRUCK OFF STRENGTH MEF - MIDDLE EAST FORCES TO BNAF - BRITISH NORTH AFRICA FORCES - SUGGESTS HIS UNIT HAD RETURNED TO NORTH AFRICA BY THAT TIME BUT CLARIFICATION WILL BE IN THE UNIT WAR DIARY ETC


    I would consider obtaining 74 Field Regiment War Diary for the period May 1942 covering their time in N Africa, Sicily and NWE after D Day. Send forum member Drew5233 a message he will likely already have copies.

    I'll work my way through the remaining B103.

    Steve Y
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    6. THE X (iv) LIST comprises all unposted reinforcements and incoming reinforcement drafts.
    Personnel discharged from (x(ii)) to Training Depots, fit for duty, are transferred to the X (iv) list of
    their corps, until posted to a unit, when they are struck off X (iv) and taken on unit strength.
    Reinforcements in transit between the Base and a unit remain on X (iv) (and the Base Depot
    strength) until they actually reach and are taken on the strength by the unit to which they are
    proceeding. Escaped PoWs [Prisoners of War] who until such escape have been on the X (iii) list
    are transferred to X (iv) list on reaching their respective training depots.

    4. THE X (ii) LIST comprises all ranks evacuated on medical grounds beyond Regimental First
    Aid Post. Personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units. Temporary
    or acting rank will be relinquished 28 days after being so transferred to X (ii) list. Personnel
    remain in X (ii) list until they are classified as fit for posting when they are transferred to the X (iv)
    list of their corps and marched out to the appropriate training depot, or until discharged by a
    medical unit direct to their original units.



    TD

    edited to add:
    Point 4 as above
     
  12. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    Steve again thank you so much! I have been looking into the 74th on d day and i have found the serial number of the ships that they were in and found that most landed 6 hours into the first wave and landed in the king sector of gold
     
  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Here are my interpretations of entries on his B103 Page 3 - THE MOST DIFFICULT TO INTERPRET SO FAR AND I'VE HAD TO MAKE CERTAIN ASSUMPTIONS AND "EDUCATED" GUESSES

    19/10/43 Embarked central med forces for UK - OK

    5/11/43 Disembarked from overseas - OK

    23/12/43 Awarded Africa Star with 8th Army Clasp - OK

    25/5/44 posted to 103 RFTS Crps & TOS X(iv) list - POSTED 63 REINFORCEMENT CAMP & TAKEN ON STRENGTH X (iv) LIST.

    I STAND TO BE CORRECTED BY MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE FORUM MEMBERS BUT THIS ENTRY SUGGESTS TO ME THAT HE DID NOT LAND ON D DAY WITH 74 FIELD REGIMENT.

    HE APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN POSTED TO A REINFORCEMENT CAMP WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN IN UK AT THAT TIME.

    AS PER THE FOLLOWING ENTRY HE WAS POSTED ON AN UNKNOWN DATE TO 208 CORPS REINFORCEMENT CENTRE (PROBABLY 9th JUNE - SEE BELOW) WHICH MAY ALSO HAVE INITIALLY BEEN IN UK BUT LIKELY MOVED ACROSS TO FRANCE SOMETIME IN JUNE (LIKELY 9th JUNE) ONCE A FOOTHOLD HAD BEEN ESTABLISHED

    SEE LATER OUT OF SEQUENCE ENTRY OF HIS MOVEMENT TO BRITISH LIBERATION ARMY 9th JUNE 1944.

    THERE IS THEREFORE A CONFLICT WITH HIS STATEMENT OF SERVICE ENTRY WHICH SUGGESTS HE SAILED FOR NORMANDY 3RD JUNE 1944.

    3/7/44 posted from 208 CRC to 31 RHU - POSTED FROM 208 CORPS REINFORCEMNT CENTRE TO 31 REINFORCEMENT HOLDING UNIT - I'M CONFIDENT HE WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN IN NORMANDY BY THIS TIME

    14/9/44 posted 74 Fd Reg & TOS X(i) list - OUT OF SEQUENCE ENTRY - POSTED TO HIS ORIGINAL UNIT (FROM HQ ROYAL ARTILLERY 50th NORTHUMBRIAN DIVISION

    19/8/44 posted from 31 RHU TOS X(i) list from X(iv) list - OUT OF SEQUENCE ENTRY - POSTED HQ ROYAL ARTILLERY 50th NORTHUMBRIAN DIVISION

    14/9/44 posted to 74 Fd Regt from HQ RH 50(N) div and TOS from X(i) list -- OK REPEATS PREVIOUS ENTRY ABOVE

    9/6/44 embarked for BLA - OUT OF SEQUENCE ENTRY AS MENTIONED ABOVE - THE DATE HE CROSSED THE CHANNEL LIKELY WITH/OR TO JOIN 208 CORPS REINFORCEMENT CENTRE - PART OF BRITISH LIBERATION ARMY

    9/12/44 NWE – Admitted Hosp to X(ii) list - OK

    9/12/44 Sunburn to foot (not sever) - SUNBURN NOT AN ISSUE IN HOLLAND IN LATE 1944 - ENTRY READS SUSTAINED BURNS RIGHT FOOT (NOT SERIOUS)

    5/1/45 discharged from hosp & TOS X(ii) list - OK

    4/6/44 Embarked UK for NWE - OUT OF SEQUENCE ENTRY - ACTUALLY READS 74 FIELD REGIMENT I.E. NOT SPECIFICALLY HIM - EMBARKS UK FOR NWE

    6/5/45 Posted to 39 RHU TOS X(IV) list - OK RHU EXPLAINED PREVIOUSLY

    19/6/45 Posted from X(iv) list 39 RHU TOS 190 Fd Regt RA - POSTED FROM RHU TO 190 FIELD REGIMENT

    Hope all the above makes sense Aaron - many entries are entered out of sequence.

    Steve
     
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  14. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    Thank you again Steve, i wasn't sure if he was at D Day but it does have his NWE dates in B200b paperwork and it says 4/6/44 to 21/10/45 and says Home 5/11/43 to 3/6/44 but the entries have been changed

    Hopefully i can get clarification
     
  15. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Aaron,

    I would personally stick by the more detailed information about his movements shown on the B103 rather than the Statement of services entry. If you get a copy of the War Diary it should show his temporary absence from the unit May through Sept 1944 on the weekly Field Returns.

    Last page B103 herewith -


    23/7/45 A7S group 20c challenged but upheld suffice & (Unreadable) on AF.B103 date of birth (AF.E 501) 31 May 1913 authority RA (Fd) Reg D5/REL/1002/1 -

    A & S Group 20 C challenged but upheld & Suffix X inserted on Army From B103. Date of birth (Army Form E501 - TA attestation form) 31 May 1913 - remainder OK just a reference to the paperwork.

    When I looked at his attestation papers it suggests his DOB was initially wrongly noted as 1918 which would have adversely effected his discharge date based on placing him in Age & Service Group 20 C. He clearly appealed and was successful leading to an earlier discharge.


    13/9/45 medically examined & found fit for further service A.I. - Medically rated A1 (A one).

    19/10/45 Posted to X (Viiia) list for class a release to SOS unit WEF 19/10/45 -

    Posting to another sub section of the X Lists covering his movement from 190 Fd Regt NWE to U.K. for discharge.


    23/10/45 Embarked NEW for UK & SOS X(Viiia) list and B.A.O.R. on class A release WEF -

    OK Left NWE BAOR - British Army of the Rhine for U.K.

    Steve
     
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  16. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    Ok Steve will do, Once again thank you for your help!
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Steve

    Is it possible the date of 3rd June 1944 was the date the 'Camp' or 'Boat' was sealed ready for D Day and then they sat for 6 days before finally sailing?? - I have a feeling I read that somewhere else

    TD
     
  18. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    I
    Hi TD,

    I agree that's the common interpretation of the usually contemporaneous entry seen on B103's for men in units due to land on D Day - originally due 5th - as they would already be aboard ship by 3rd or 4th June.

    However as he was posted away from his unit to a reinforcement camp the last week in May - albeit it would likely also be sealed (not likely to be going over on D Day though?) -

    I'm tending towards interpreting the statement of services entry as being a clerical mistake entered on his statement of services much later based on the single entry on his B103 which uses words to the effect that the whole unit sailed 3rd June. I've never seen such a form of words on a B103 previously.

    You may be right in your comments though as it is always difficult to accurately interpret these documents 70+ years after the event!

    Regards

    Steve
     
  19. Aaron Simmons

    Aaron Simmons Member

    I have booked in with the national archives to confirm the information incase I can't get a digital copy, quicker me going up there than ordering a copy from them with the waiting time
     
  20. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Aaron,

    Don't ever ask TNA to copy anything for you. It's far too expensive. Members here do it far cheaper - 10 or 20% of TNA cost.

    Have you been to Kew before? It can be daunting for a first time visitor.

    Steve
     

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