Short introduction, new to the forums, but came here in the hopes of expanding my knowledge on the Second World War further and also getting some peer help with things I can not seem to find a solid answer to. I'm a history student graduating with honours this June, and I've recently started to collect militaria more so than I have been outside of books. I have always had an interest in the Eastern Front and specifically the battle for Stalingrad. My question is that I've seen "Defense of Stalingrad" medals available on ebay and other militaria websites ranging in prices, and they do all look the same, and I thought it would be a nice piece to have. But at a militaria show in my hometown a few months ago, several medal collectors' I spoke to at the show informed me there is no such medal in existence, and they all seemed to treat my lack of knowing this "fact" that I was wasting their time and didn't belong in their presence (don't know if anyone else has had similar experiences with "collectors"). I would like a definite answer though on whether this medal is a legitimate one for the defence of Stalingrad, and if not, then what exactly is this medal for? Any information that's not Wikipedia would help me a lot to figure this out. Here are some images of the medal in question:
Hi and welcome to the forum...There's a few members on here that are into all things Ostfront that I'm sure will be able to help you out. Regards Andy
Hi Larkinator. Welcome to the forum. First of all I don't really understand the attitudes of those people you have been talking to, as there was indeed a series of "Defence Of ..." medals - Stalingrad, Leningrad, Moscow, Odessa, etc etc. There were also a number of other Orders and Medals, here is a couple of good primers: The Soviet Military Awards Page. Medals, History and Russia! and Orders, decorations, and medals of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia What has to be borne in mind is that a number of these were "political", that is, they were awarded to people whose contribution was not really significant but it would be politically "nice" for them to have them. The extreme case for this was Leonid Brezhnev, who awarded himself the Star of Hero of the Soviet Union 5 times! (Pres. Yeltsin took care of that afterwards, hehehe!) A large number of these Medals were awarded long after the event, some of the medals being struck even in the 60s or later, hence the "new" look these have, including the photo above, the ribbon looks just too good What you really have to look for for a better guarantee of authenticity (and even then...) would be for the accompanying "gramota", the award certificate, with matching serial numbers, especially from a reputable dealer ( Collect Russia Collect Russia Soviet Russian =$$$) . What you find in ebay will be mostly overpriced unissued surplus stock, of little historical value. Plus some outright forgeries, such as a really bad Order of Suvorov I saw the other day See here: Soviet medals and orders - Forgeries Much better this : Award Group 1 or Hero of the Soviet Union Medal T2 I have a few of these later issues, valueless, but quite frankly I can't afford any better, such is life.
So were all these medal collectors at the show completely off their rockers or what? I've seen that same description for the Stalingrad one several times (I think that's what the ebay sellers copy in their descriptions). Maybe they just didn't care about Russian medals and were insulted I wasn't interested in their horde of German ones or something like that...I was pretty sure Russians would have definitely issued a medal for a battle as significant as Stalingrad. Maybe there'll be a friendlier collector there who has some Russian medals this time around.
Maybe they just didn't care about Russian medals and were insulted I wasn't interested in their horde of German ones or something like that Ahhhh, that says a lot...
Thanks Za, my last post was made before yours showed up. Appreciate the info. Yes one of the collectors warned me just about everything out of the Soviet bloc countries are fakes...but I was skeptical and when I said "well wouldn't that be the source of finding the authentic ones though?" he replied "most of those East Euros are always looking to get rich quick and it kills the market for real collectors. Some of them just mould one original and print out more then scratch them up. I never deal with anyone in Eastern Europe no matter what they might be offering". He was an older guy in a wheelchair, maybe early 70's or late 60's, but he was probably just very anti-Soviet in his bias'.
I'd say the lesser orders won't be fakes, but bona fide post-war medals, awarded or taken from stock. What I'd be worried of would be some backdoor "genuine" Order of Kutuzov at $50... Oh, also bear in mind than when some of the higher Orders were issued, they were issued twice! For instance: the Gold Star of Hero of the Sov. Union came with a official "every day" copy in brass And there are bona fide replicas as well, I have a (very bad) Order of Lenin replica, but then the original WAS gold and platinum, so if you can only afford peanuts you can't expect much. But do take a good look at the forums in the websites I gave you, you'll find good people there! Soviet phalerology is a very rewarding hobby (to me at least ) Also, you absolutely won't find a Star of Marshall of the SU, as these were awarded for life but remained property of the state, being gold studded in diamonds and rubies. With the passing of the subject the Star reverts to the State Diamond Fund, so there won't be any available in any market. Diamond Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia State Diamond Fund Museum in the Kremlin, Moscow More on fakery: Under the Red Star - Army Caps
Dear Larkinator, Regarding your question of a Russian Stalingrad medal. You are correct. I'm sorry you had such a experience with the fools at the show. The medal for the defence of Stalingrad was established on Dec. 22 1942. It was awarded to all servicemen of the Soviet Army, Navy Ministry of Internal Affairs as well as to civilians who took part in the defence of the city. Stalingrad was also awarded the title of "Hero City" on May 1st 1945. As you may know it is made of brass. There was approximatley 760,000 awarded. I guess I'm late with the info, but have just joined the site, due to the question you asked, and because of the obtuse way you were treated. I hope this is of some interest. All the best.
