I am researching 7th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers 51st Highland Division 1940. I have the War Diary which only goes up to 31st of May 1940. Are there any other documents that might tell me which Companies soldiers were in???
Good afternoon Chesterflyer. You've come to one of the most difficult questions about this perioed! I have spent many years trying to place names into companies and platoons. If the regimental museum hasn't got any surviving records (all the RSF ones where destroyed in a fire!!) then it's a really tall order. I started with the officers and created a battalion family tree. It's a start! I have been able to do some detective work with mine. Knowing where certain companies or platoon were at certain moments can help. I know that A Coy RSF was deployed on Hill 60, so the casualties and prisoners taken there could very well be A Coy. (not 100%, but pretty sure) then try to cross reference this with other diaries and records. It's taken me 4 years to get to where I am now. But when I started I didn't even have a list or who was there, the records having been destoyed! Good Luck Iain
Iain, Yes I thought it a tall order as the war diary of 7RNF 1940 was destroyed to stop its capture by the Germans prior to St Valery. Like you I have been doing detective work but its a tall order. I know even today tracking a soldiers movements within a Battalion can be difficult. Thanks again.
I have found the Casualty Enquiry files at the National Archives are frequently a very good source of information about units and actions - I think the Northumberland Fusiliers are in WO 361/49. Lots of names of people in the same platoons/sections etc as they would invariably have been amongst the last to have been with those that were missing John
Hello Chesterflyer, Are you looking for someone in particular? If so, an officer will be personally named on the establishment list (and sometimes with company annotation) in the War Diary. I have the regimental history, but these only usually discuss the officers and only medal winners from other ranks. Have you tried the regimental museum at Alnwick Castle? Best, Steve.
Thanks John I will look into this. Steve the museum have nothing apart from a set of medals on the 7th but I will go up there and do some rummaging Chester PS Sorry for late reply as I dont seem to get any notifications
Chesterflyer You must enjoy a fair element of frustration - as that is what you are heading into in trying to find a list of Company personnel- way too many changes - transfers - sick lists - deaths -BUT - you could get lucky - for ONE point in time.. Cheers
Hi Steve, Chester has been doing the lion's share of finding out about 7RNF, but you may be able to help, as when the Bn mustered at Gosforth Park, many returned home, as they were miners, and their places were filled by DLI and (London) Rifle Bde Militia. Anyone out there,apart from Chester know anything about this, Bns, Coys, personnel etc. Regards John
Hello John, I was born on Brunton Lane opposite Gosforth Park and feel I should know more about the 7th Bn, RNF; after all they were in 149th Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division until 1938 and the reorganisation, and 50 Div is where a lot of my family served and my main interest. One of my great granddads was in 4th Bn, NF (later RNF), 149th Brigade, 50 Div in WWI... All I know about the 7th Bn at this time is from the Regimental History, which says that it lost 50% of its men, who were miners, on concentration at Gosforth Park and these were replaced by "militiamen". One thought though, as the 7th Bn went into the bag at St Valery with the bulk of the 51st Highland Division, wouldn't there be British POW records that recorded name, rank, company, Battalion, etc.? Best, Steve.
Thanks for that Steve, I'm sure Chester has cottoned on to this as well. I was born in Birtley Co. Durham; my mother's family were from Quebec Co Durham, not Canada!, although there is a rumour that her father's family, the Gaudens came North with the railways from Worcestershire, where I now live. Funny old thing life. My father's family were from the Alnwick area. However, my father used to tell me that his side of the family, Lawson, were from Scotland, could be MacClarens, apparently from Sutherland, so perhaps another link to 51 HD, you never know. Regards John
Sounds like you may already be on this track, but a couple of ideas from my own Canadian research: Daily Orders Part II (Pt II Orders) Strength increases, decreases, appointments, promotions etc filed with higher headquarters. I have had a bit of success finding Coy assignments on enlistment and seeing Coys noted when leave was granted. These orders do not typically record Coy postings within the unit once it was up and running. In Canada, these are subject to privacy restrictions, so research can be challenging. Daily Orders Part I (Pt I Orders) Similar to the above, but more focused on the day to day operation of the Bn. It sounds as though these may have been lost with the War Diaries, where they are typically held, but there were multiple copies, so Regimental Museums, local Archives, etc might be a source. Seemed to depend on the unit, some were very conscientious in recording Coy postings within the unit, others quite haphazard. With what you have access to, I would look for embarkation rolls for transit to new locations or overseas. As Tom alluded to, these might provide a snapshot on a particular day, hopefully reasonably close to the time you are interested in. Typically cover the bulk of the Bn, but Advance party, Cadre (including most officers), Rear party, etc are often not included.
Hello again John, When I was at senior school I had two games teachers, one called Colin White (played prop for Gosforth (now Newcastle Falcons), North of England and England), a hard but fair man and when he left, a Mr Lawson (can't remember his first name, but I think it could have been Colin as well). He was from Cumbria originally; but there were a fair few Lawsons' around the area! I will have a good rummage for information on the 7th Bn, RNF and will post again if I think I find anything of relevence. Best, Steve.
I have found the Casualty Enquiry files at the National Archives are frequently a very good source of information about units and actions - I think the Northumberland Fusiliers are in WO 361/49. Lots of names of people in the same platoons/sections etc as they would invariably have been amongst the last to have been with those that were missing John I concur-I've copied quite a few of these now and did the Durham Light Infantry one this week. Many of the pages refer to many of the men by the company they were in and sometimes down to platoon level. Cheers Andy
Cannot help directly with the company issue but any DLI men transferred at this time will,like all transferrees retain their Regimental Block Numbers in the case of the DLI their enlistment and discharge books are held at the DRO in Durham. Durham Record Office Deposit - Durham Light Infantry Records Best Wishes Jim
Hello Steve Mac, Ref. your #10 message. I must be blind! You say "you should know more about 7th Bn, RNF; after all they were in 149th Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division until 1938 and the reorganisation". Chesterflyer has told me how they recieved conversion training. Have you any info about this Bn, as I believe my grandfather would have been in it before reorg. Also as he was a miner, why didn't he return to the pit, was it voluntary, and when did it become, if at all,compulsory? Regards, John
If documents from Regimental HQs have been kept (I doubt that) or kept on micro film, then all soldiers will on their Regimental and Company conduct sheets have the company or sub unit they belonged to listed. Some of the researchers here would know - the problem is of course that there are few regiments today that have not been amalgamated. I know that all 2026s containing AF120/121 (Conduct Sheets) in the case of my regiment have the company - Right Flank, G, or Left Flank these are kept at Guards' RHQs. The data protection act and the old rehabilitation of offenders act the latter was stamped onto conduct sheets - would apply also.
Code: I have found the Casualty Enquiry files at the National Archives are frequently a very good source of information about units and actions - I think the Northumberland Fusiliers are in WO 361/49. Lots of names of people in the same platoons/sections etc as they would invariably have been amongst the last to have been with those that were missing John I don't quite understand this. Presumably WO361/49 is the war diary. Is there normally a "casualty enquiry file" and can this be found within the war diary? Lastly, would the name of the platoon (troop) be shown alongside the name of the KIA?
