Pte Gilbert Anderson 3606646

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Tanja van Zon-Anderson, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Hallo,

    Sometimes it is good that somebody points two times to a piece of information.

    Airborne Medic: you had good reasons to doubt the b.w. agent.

    I recived a message of the National War Museum today. They told met that it should be c.w. agent. The service record is handwritten and it is not always easy to read.


    134/43 5th
    Exposed to a c.w. Agent during
    Week-ending 26-6-43 at Chemical
    Defence Experimental Station
    Porton. Wilts vide K.R1940/Para
    1718 (XXI).


    In the attachmed that goes with this post you can read the updated K.R. 1940 paragraph 1718 (XXi).

    Greetings

    Tanja

    In which case I would suggest chemcial warfare agent.....possibly mustard gas......
     
  2. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    And do you think such experiment was done?

    I do understand that this will be a hypotese.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  3. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Gilbert Anderson had left school in 1937 about 2 days after his 14th birthday. His service record says he had education grade D.

    His last school was St George Mossley.

    How educated was he? What can I understand?

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  4. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo Everybody,

    Maybe somebody can help on this one.

    My uncle Gilbert went to the St- George School Mossley and left school in 1937 two day's after is 14the birthday. He was born in july 1923. In 1938 the Headmaster of this school wrote a referentie the help him to find an occupation. I believe he became milkroundsman.

    In 1939 my grandparents and youngest son (that is my Dad Gordon Anderson) moved house to Blackpool.

    My questions are:

    - are there any documents or census were I can find were my uncle Gilbert lived between 1939 en 1941.
    - are there any documents or census that can tell me the name of the company or Coop were he was milksroundman.

    Thank you very much.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  5. gliderrider

    gliderrider Senior Member

    Tanja, im presuming The school is Mossley in Tameside, which it seems to be, so this may help you Tameside Family History Certainly you should be able to contact someone there.

    I would say the Dairy was likely to be the Co-op, His education level was of a basic level
     
  6. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Today for the first time I felt dissapointment in my search to my uncle Gilbert Anderson.

    Knowing I allready made best with the report I had of the BIDKL pointing out one maybe two grave out of the lot of unkown at Oosterbeek. I am very proud and pleased with this result. Leaving this result at rest for the time being and feeling good with it I changed my search finding information about the 11the (history) and trying to find the letters of my grandma and personal belongings of my uncle.

    I wrote to different organisations like MoD, CWGC, a Member of Parliament, musea.
    And they are all pointing to eachother and to the National Archive.

    What I am trying to say is this.

    My uncle made a will. His belongings should have gone to my grandmother. She never received it. And 68 years after the war knowbody knows were these things are.

    The UK army had a service record, but these are not complete. Dental information and other information went missing.

    My grandmother wrote many letters to the War Office and those letters went missing, just like the letters she wrote to her son.

    Not only her son went missing, but also the last belongings of him went missing. His will was not respected.

    I realy feel sorry for all these soldiers and their mothers and other relatives. Their mothers lost their sons two times.

    What a mess.

    Tanja
     
  7. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Tanja, I had a great Uncle who fought and died in WW1. When reviewing his records I noticed that all his money, medals, and effects had been sent to a Miss. K. Goddard. Nobody, including his mother knew who she was. I was stuck and couldn't figure out where his stuff and money went. Then by chance I came across the National Army Museum.

    They have a service which deals with Soldier's Effects.

    Here is the link to the PDF about post 1920 soldiers:
    http://www.nam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/research-information-4.pdf

    Exerpt from above PDF
    Soldiers’ Effects Records:
    The National Army Museum holds an extensive set of records relating to monies paid to the named relatives of deceased soldiers and those discharged insane during this period. They do not give details of the personal possessions of dead personnel. These are not currently available in the TSC, but a transcript is available for a charge of £10.25 per soldier from the Department of Archives, Photographs, Film and Sound. The charge is levied as they are stored off site from the main museum.

    When I applied for this information I received records showing when and how much money was sent and to whom. It isn't much but every bit helps when faced with brick walls.
    Maybe they will have a clue or two for you to run with. They may also have some other good ideas of where to go and search. They were extremely helpful.

    Here is their website:
    Family History | Research | National Army Museum, London

    Wayne
     
  8. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo Wayne

    Thank you very much. Yes this will help to get my mind reset as well.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  9. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Tanja, also soldiers wills could be changed on a whim, my great Uncle simply crossed out his family and added her name on his Army history sheet.
    If he completed a will in his service/pay book he could have changed that as well without anyone knowing. The Army would be rather poor at communicating this to those not named.

    One other thing, my great uncle had no effects to return to his family. The reason for this was his remains were never found. Effects can get destroyed, lost, damaged, or stolen before they are gathered depending on the situation.

    Hopefully the NAM can help.

    Wayne
     
  10. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo Wayne,

    Thank you for explaining things. I do understand what you are saying.

    I do have a copy of the will of my uncle, and if he had changed it, the MoD should know.

    Further: the things I am intrested in are the letters my grandmother wrote to the waroffice. And the personal belongings of my uncle wich stayed behind in the barracks after he had left for Arnhem.

    It would be poor communication if the personal belongings of all those soldiers had been distroyed. I mean photo's, letters, clothes, dentalcard, musicinstruments. etc.

    I do not believe the will was changed because I think I saw some papers about payments to my grandmother. I have to look that up, but what you say is interresting.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  11. jacksun

    jacksun Senior Member

    Tanja, I'll let the vets corrects me if I am wrong but I would assume nothing would be left behind in the barracks, everything personal the soldier would carry when deployed overseas. Soldiers were rotated in and out of the barracks, nobody had a "this is my bed and cupboard" permanent space. Their personal kit may have been left at the field camp when they went to engage the enemy, but I'm not even certain on what that would be comprised of, extra uniforms and clothing, instruments maybe, stuff like that. I would think shaving kit, photos, personal letters, money, wallets, paybooks, pipes, lighters and all that sort of "very personal" effects would be on the soldier at all times.
    I would think the Army, and a man's comrades would be very careful with his effects. But as they say stuff happens, not being glib, but for example a truck carrying soldiers effects and other stuff to a ship for transport home gets bombed and destroyed, those soldiers effects are now gone. Sad, but possible.

    If your grandmother wrote the Army the letters may be part of his "complete service record". All the letters to the Army from my Great Uncles Mother, and his girlfriend were part of his soldier service record. His service record was also where it was documented that there were no effects to send the family.

    Not saying that your wrong or that the Army didn't screw up, but things were different back then, and many things could happen that could affect the normal, expected process of dealing with a soldiers effects and other matters when a death occurred.

    Wayne

    Hallo Wayne,

    Thank you for explaining things. I do understand what you are saying.

    I do have a copy of the will of my uncle, and if he had changed it, the MoD should know.

    Further: the things I am intrested in are the letters my grandmother wrote to the waroffice. And the personal belongings of my uncle wich stayed behind in the barracks after he had left for Arnhem.

    It would be poor communication if the personal belongings of all those soldiers had been distroyed. I mean photo's, letters, clothes, dentalcard, musicinstruments. etc.

    I do not believe the will was changed because I think I saw some papers about payments to my grandmother. I have to look that up, but what you say is interresting.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  12. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo Wayne,

    I have been talking with some vets (at the Ginkelse Heath) who had been to Normandie. They told me that it was not possible to take everything with them they had stored in the barracks.

    One of them had his things back after he returned to the UK.
    But he did not know who had sended it to him.

    Greetings

    Tanj
     
  13. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo Everybody,

    When my uncle Gilbert enlisted his first regiment was the 70th battalion Border Regiment. First I thought it was the 10th, but his leave card has a 70th on it.

    I understand that this was a 'young soldiers' battalion.
    I have searched the internet for more information and photo's.
    But my search does not brings me further.

    Is it correct that the 'young soldier' battalions were used for home defence?

    Where can I find more information about this battalion?

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  14. Alanst500

    Alanst500 Senior Member

    Hello Tanja could only find 2 mention of the 70th. Private Ron Graydon

    the other only mentions that they were "Young Soldiers but does not go into any detail.

    Good luck with your research.
    Alan.

    have you joined this site The Border Regiment Forum • Search

    Click on the Forum Publications on the left.
     
  15. Jolly Squire

    Jolly Squire Member

     
  16. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hello Tanja could only find 2 mention of the 70th. Private Ron Graydon

    the other only mentions that they were "Young Soldiers but does not go into any detail.

    Good luck with your research.
    Alan.

    have you joined this site The Border Regiment Forum • Search

    Click on the Forum Publications on the left.

    Hallo Alan,

    Thank you for your reply. I have read the information of Ron Graydon before, only at that time I thought that my uncle was in the 10th Border regiment, but last week I found his leavecard and saw that the 10th was the 70th.

    I have been searching The Border Regiment Forum the last days and some how I didn't find the two threads you had found. I have sign in and have requested for more information about the 70th. I will have to wait what this will bring to me.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  17. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Goodevening Squire,

    Thank you for you advice. I have sended an e-mail to Stuart Eastwoord en Tonny Goddard like you have adviced.

    Reading the information of Ron Graydon I wanderd why my uncle came in the 70th, was it his age or his behavior!.

    Well I just have to wait for the information.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  18. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Good day Tanja,

    In case this is of any interest to you, below is a simplified version of the evolution of the 70th (Young Soldiers) Battalion from a 'Home Defence' battalion (as I understand it). The very helpful staff at the Border Regiment & KORBR Museum will be able to give you more information beyond the following brief sketch.

    (a) National Defence Corps (Summer 1939):
    Instructions given to the Territorial Army Association to enrol 'Old Solidiers' (over 45) to form a 'National Defence Corps'.

    (b) 100 Group (National Defence Corps) (Summer 1939):
    Consisted of 5 companies -
    3 from Lancashire; 1 from Westmorland; 1 from Cumberland.
    Group H.Q. was at Kendal.

    (c) 8th (H.D.) Battalion The Border Regiment (December 1939):
    100 Group was reorganised into a battalion of the Border Regiment
    (most of the 'Old Solidiers' had previously served with the Border Regiment).

    (d) 8th (H.D.) Battalion to 70th (Young Soldiers) Battalion:
    In June 1940, 8th Border recruited many 'Young Soldiers' (i.e.16 & 17 year olds).
    At this stage it had 10 companies. They were involved in guard duties against German invasion / attack.
    Subsequently, 3 companies were withdrawn to become the nucleus of the 70th (Young Soldiers) Battalion.
    It would have been at this period your Gt Uncle would have enlisted (i.e. after the 70th Bn came into being).
    I understand from what you have previously written this was some time in 1941?

    I hope this assists you with your quest.

    Good luck.
     
  19. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Good day Tanja,

    In case this is of any interest to you, below is a simplified version of the evolution of the 70th (Young Soldiers) Battalion from a 'Home Defence' battalion (as I understand it). The very helpful staff at the Border Regiment & KORBR Museum will be able to give you more information beyond the following brief sketch.

    (a) National Defence Corps (Summer 1939):
    Instructions given to the Territorial Army Association to enrol 'Old Solidiers' (over 45) to form a 'National Defence Corps'.

    (b) 100 Group (National Defence Corps) (Summer 1939):
    Consisted of 5 companies -
    3 from Lancashire; 1 from Westmorland; 1 from Cumberland.
    Group H.Q. was at Kendal.

    (c) 8th (H.D.) Battalion The Border Regiment (December 1939):
    100 Group was reorganised into a battalion of the Border Regiment
    (most of the 'Old Solidiers' had previously served with the Border Regiment).

    (d) 8th (H.D.) Battalion to 70th (Young Soldiers) Battalion:
    In June 1940, 8th Border recruited many 'Young Soldiers' (i.e.16 & 17 year olds).
    At this stage it had 10 companies. They were involved in guard duties against German invasion / attack.
    Subsequently, 3 companies were withdrawn to become the nucleus of the 70th (Young Soldiers) Battalion.
    It would have been at this period your Gt Uncle would have enlisted (i.e. after the 70th Bn came into being).
    I understand from what you have previously written this was some time in 1941?

    I hope this assists you with your quest.

    Good luck.

    Hallo,

    Thank you very much. You are right.

    I received some information about the 70th battalion Border Regiment yesterday. This with thanks to the Cubria's Military Museum.

    Mr. Stuart Eastwood told me that my uncle was with the 70th Battalion Border Regiment, because of his age. My uncle was 18 years old when he enlisted. That was on 22-07-1941. He was posted on the 02-08-1941 at ITC Carlisle. He was a milkroundman till the day he became soldier.

    The most regiment knew a 70th (young soldiers) battalion. It was a prefixed number. They were used for home defence. The personal letters of my uncle are most of time situated nearby airfields. So it could have been possible that his battalion was quarding these airfields.

    Than, with thanks to Jolly Squire, he pointed out page 32 and 33 of the Book: When Dragons Flew. And Paul Pariso who had sended me a page of the same book were former members of the 1st Battalion Border Regiment are commemorated. The name of my uncle is in here as well.

    So I think that he volunteerd for the 1st Battalion Border Regiment while he was serving with the 70th Battalion. Soon after my uncle was transfered to the 5th East Lancs.

    The peaces of the story (live) of my uncle are getting together, bit by bit.
    I like this. Thanks to you all.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     

    Attached Files:

  20. andy-w

    andy-w Junior Member

    Hallo,

    Does somebody has a photo of pte Gordon Best?
    His service number is 1463210.

    Greetings

    Tanja

    Hi Tanja,

    I have been trying to find details about Gordon Best and found this thread where you are asking for a picture of him.

    My Aunties step mother was Rita Best, she married gordon just a few weeks before he flew to Arnhem. Unfortunately Rita passed away a couple of years ago but she did manage to make one trip to Arnhem to see where Gordon fought and died. I have foun d several references to Gordon but most say he had no know grave. I have also found out that he died at St Elisabeth Hospital and was buried by Buried by Padre D.McGowan in the Onderlangs Park Close to the river.

    I have also found out that he served in 1st Battalion 1st Parachute Brigade HQ Company.

    If you have any more infomation i would love to hear it.

    As for a picture i shall contact my Auntie and see if she has one.

    Thanks

    Andy
     

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