Pte Gilbert Anderson 3606646

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Tanja van Zon-Anderson, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo,
    I am new on this forum and searching for information about my uncle, pte Gilbert Anderson.

    Gilbert Anderson had died on the 25-09-1944 at Arnhem and was temporary buried at Onderlangs. We do believe that his remains are moved and reburied at Warcemetery Oosterbeek. His headstone is of an 'unkown soldier'.

    Gilbert Anderson was a member of the 11 battalion paratrooper and he was dropped on the 18the of september. He is the son of Thomas and Elizabeth Anderson from Blackpool.

    I do believe that he had served in the Border Regt. and also at the East Lanceshire regtiment.

    We have requested a correction of the information and photo's in the Roll of honor and at the site of Paradata.

    Now I am waiting for information from the CWGM. We have requested for his files.

    After the war the remains of many soldiers where transported to Oosterbeek to their finale grave. How did they do that?

    - where the bodies moved by truck?
    - died the move the bodies al to together?
    - was their a way of registering (writin down information)?
    - how took the identify place?

    I am 47 years old and have know idea about how these things took place.
    And I can not read al the books in a short time.

    Our wish is to place a good headstone on the grave of my uncle.
    My father is 77 years old.

    If you need more information, let me know. Maybee I have the information whitout knowing it.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
    Capt Bill likes this.
  2. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Owen,

    Thank you very much for moving the message.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  3. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Tanja

    Welcome to the forum. As you say your uncle Gilbert Anderson was first buried by members of the Dutch Red Cross in the Onderlangs. He was probably killed during the attempt to reach the Bridge on Tuesday 19th September.
    Information about the burial was passed to Father McGowan who was working in St Elisabeth Hospital. I attach a copy of his list which was smuggled back to the UK by one of the participants on Operation Pegasus on 22/23rd October.
    After the war members of the Graves Concentration and Grave Registration Units were responsible for locating these field graves, exhuming the bodies and transferring them to their final resting places. Although those others buried in the Onderlangs were recovered it would appear that Gilbert's body could not be found.

    John
     

    Attached Files:

    CL1 likes this.
  4. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo John,

    Thank you for your welcome and answer.

    The copy you have attached is one I have as well. And I have been informed that father McGowan has mixed up some card-coördinates.

    We have thought for a long time that his body could not be found.

    The last 6 month we have some contacts and I have red some letters. We started to believe that his body is moved to Warcemetery Oosterbeek. I have also red a letter (have to look for that letter again) that my grandmother had to verify the information. It looks like she did not answer that letter. I do not know why.
    We do not know what happend with the information.

    I have two problems in my search.
    1: I am dutch and my english is not always to good.
    2: I have absolutly no images or ideas by this war and how things where organisited.

    Greetings
    Tanja
     
  5. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    The Chaplains were expected to complete casualty lists,burial returns and grasp all relevant identification and registration procedures.They were supposed to take ink fingerprints-if possible-before burial and forward them,along with any personal effects(a watch or ring maybe?)parcelled and labelled to the GRU`s
    Quote:
    Chaplains like the senior officers also had the grevous task at the end of almost every day of writing casualty letters to next of kin....
    I have been reading some threads on this forum and found these quotes.
    They tell me a bit more about things where done (if possible) to register fieldgrave information.

    If personal belongings (like a ring) off soldiers in Arnhem (ww2) where taken by a field-burial, where did they send them to? And who sended a letter to the next of kin?

    I know that my grandmother had an lot of letters in wich she was told that her son was killed in action somewhere in west Europe? I know that he was missing. So she never have recived his personal belongings.

    My real question is:
    1: was it common to register personal belongings before taking off (september 1944)?
    2: how big is the chance that these belongings where stolen by Germanes or others?
    3: if personal belongings are sended to England are they still archived somewhere?
    4: is it true that those who went to war wrote a testemony and what happend with that?

    Greetings
    Tanja
     
  6. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Like you can see, I do not know how to copy a quote. I am sorry.
     
  7. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    My real question is:
    1: was it common to register personal belongings before taking off (september 1944)?(I don't think so, I have found a ring with initials on a former first aidpost in Oosterbeek in a trench, maybe if the battle had won by the para's , but now the germans took over, and the place was evacuated, and nobody came in the area for months, and a lot off looting took place, by the Germans)
    2: how big is the chance that these belongings where stolen by Germanes or others? (its possible, sometimes they were kept by the Dutch people, who handed them over in 1945, to the liberation troops)
    3: if personal belongings are sended to England are they still archived somewhere? (One would expect that the GWGC kept them, but this is not the case)
    4: is it true that those who went to war wrote a testemony and what happend with that? (Most of them did this before going into battle, and it stayed behind at Battalion HQ, however, I have heard from POW's that after they returned, their belongings were thrown away, or in some cases even stolen by other soldiers)
     
  8. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    - where the bodies moved by truck? (most probably, but some were also brought in by civilians, don't forget, that the bodies have been buried for months, if they were buried, so it was a terrible job)
    - died the move the bodies al to together? ( no, they worked from different area's)
    - was their a way of registering (writin down information)?( yes two seperate documents, but it is proven, that sometimes, names,numbers and burial locaties were mixed up)
    - how took the identify place? (ID tag, if still as the british worn them of pressed carbord, instead of the US (metal)ones, any papers found on the body, like army paybook, but those who were buried for example at Kate Ter horst place, were even sometimes, naked or only worn underwear,and in somecases the washinglabels in their clothes/underwear, and with dentalcards)
     
  9. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Dear Philip,

    Thank you very much for the information. It helps my to get a better idea.

    For your information. My father had a couple years (may 2007) a go contact with you. He lost contact because my mother went sick and needed his attention.

    Greetings
    Tanja
     
  10. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    I remember him Tanja, give him my regards
     
  11. Capt Bill

    Capt Bill wanderin off at a tangent

    interesting thread - if only because I am an Anderson
     
  12. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Going on with this I only get more questions at the moment.

    Based on the information I have, I do think that my uncle was moved to the warcemetery Oosterbeek.

    Some how two graves came to my attention

    15 B 17
    15 C 19

    Both are at the moment 'unkown soldier'.

    For grave 15 B 17 I have no verified information and I am waiting for more details.

    Of grave 15C19 I have a small describtion of the soldier written in a letter to my grandmother..


    We have requested information of the CWGW in november 2011 and we are still waiting for it.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     
  13. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Hallo,
    I am new on this forum and searching for information about my uncle, pte Gilbert Anderson.

    I do believe that he had served in the Border Regt. and also at the East Lanceshire regtiment.

    Good day Tanja (and family),

    I am not sure if this adds much to your enquiry but hopefully it may provide a little extra in your quest.

    Private Gilbert Anderson of Blackpool, Lancashire has a Border Regiment service number (3606646). He must have originally enlisted with one of the battalions of that regiment. At some point your uncle served in the 1st Battalion The Border Regiment before transfering to the 11th Battalion Parachute Regiment. As you are doubtless aware, 1st Border was also in the 1st Airborne Division and took part in 'Market Garden'.

    As a former member of the 1st Battalion The Border Regiment, Private Anderson's death and commemoration is mentioned in Appendix I of 'When Dragons Flew', as follows:

    ANDERSON 3606646 Pte Gilbert, 11th Bn Parachute Regiment, 25.9.44, aged 21. Son of Thomas and Elizabeth Anderson of Blackpool, Lancashire.
    Known to have been buried at Onderlans, approximately opposite St Elizabeth's Hospital, Arnhem, but grave not located.
    GM P8 (Groesbeek Memorial, Nijmegen).

    I have heard from some of the Veterans who took part in 'Market Garden' there were instances where they knew where some of their pals had first been buried but then later on the exact location was lost. It is most unfortunate when this happens, but these things happen in war.

    It might still be possible to positively identify your uncle's grave. If the CWGC have positively identified all but one of the casualties who were first buried at Onderlans, as you have indicated earlier, then this should be your uncle. If the records they have match up with all but one casualty then you may yet be successful.

    [The spelling of 'Onderlans' is what is used in the book. I noticed you have spelt it slightly differently].

    I wish you good luck with your enquiry.
     
  14. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    going on with this i only get more questions at the moment.

    Based on the information i have, i do think that my uncle was moved to the warcemetery oosterbeek.

    Some how two graves came to my attention

    15 b 17
    15 c 19

    both are at the moment 'unkown soldier'.

    Of grave 15c19 i have a small describtion of the soldier.

    - height: 5ft. 9 ins.
    - hair: Brown, short.
    - teeth: Complete, except one tooth missing in the upper jaw on the right and two teeth missing on the lower jaw on the left.
    - clothes: Wearing a four red chvrons denoting four years service in his majesty's forces.
    Boots: Size 8
    laundry marks p/3961 and a-46

    are these descrioptions things that i would be able to find in the file of cwgw?

    We have requested information of the cwgw in november 2011 and we are still waiting for it.

    Greetings

    tanja

    i don't think so tanja, as this kind of information is only available to cwgc, and is not given to "outsiders"
     
  15. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Thank you very much.

    There where three casualties not identified. They are my uncle G. Anderson (3606646 11th para), G. Best (1463210 1ste para) en one without dogtag. J.C. Younger (4916025) was mentionted to be buried. But he has no grave and his information is not known in the Rol of honor. And in 1989 the CWGC wrote to my grandmother that Younger was not known in their records at all.

    The text off the book 'When dragons flew' is known to me since last week.
    Paul Pariso sended it to me. So it looks like that my uncle had served at Border Regt, the East Lancashire regt, and the 11the para. Could I be right?

    About the name Onderlangs. Well in Dutch the street is called 'Onderlangs'. It is a small green park between St. Elizabeths Hospital and the Rhine. If you are standing with your back to the Rhine and face to the Hospital (it is above you) you have a hotel on the left hand and the bridge on the right hand. The Utrechtseweg is going up above Onderlangs and some people call it Bovenlangs. If you are standing on the Utrechtseweg with you face looking to the Rhine Onderlangs is laying below (your looking down to it).

    A lot of soldiers where buried by the Dutch Red Cross. Some information where gatherd by Brigadier Hacket, and by father McGowan. There must have been a lot confusion at the time.

    Some sorces tells that soldiers like my uncle and others (G. Parkes, G. Best, J.C. Younger, P. Wright, O. Gordon, B. Rehill and G. Ashdown) where buried approximately opposite St. Elizabeth't Hospital. Other sorces tells that they where buried more to the east. Nearby the jewish cemetery and art academy.

    I have a photo of my uncle and (I think) G. Parkes. But I have not found out yet how to place photo's.

    Greetings
    Tanja
     
  16. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    Hallo Philip,

    The identification-information was given to my grandmother in a letter. I have that letter in my archive.
    She was asked to agaree with the given details. If she would a agree than that grave should be accepted of her son.
    We do not know what she had answerd to that letter.

    We (my father is next of kin) have requested for the information.
    We do hope to find what my grandmother had answerd to this letter.
    But they say it could take about 9 months before the reply.

    Greetings
    Tanja
     
  17. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    I do not know how the person is on the left. In middle is G. Parkes and to right is G. Anderson.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    The Border Regiment & KORBR Museum and Archives should have at least the date of enlistment to - and the date of transfer from - the Border Regiment if you contacted them. However, if your father has requested a copy of his brother's service record all the details would be in there so it may be best to wait until you receive that.

    The other two fellows in the photograph you have posted are wearing a Border Regiment cap badge, so I would guess it was taken while your uncle was serving with that regiment. I have a lot of Border Regiment photographs but unfortunately I do not recognise the unknown fellow on the left either.
     
  19. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

  20. Tanja van Zon-Anderson

    Tanja van Zon-Anderson Senior Member

    I do believe that my uncle Gilbert Anderson was with the Special Forces for a short time. But I have no information to confirm this.

    We (my father and me) were talking about this last night. Wondering if he had sollicited at the paratroopers first or maybee he wasn't qualified enought for SAS.

    http://www.specialforcesroh.com/browse.php?mode=viewiroll&rollid=11192

    This information was added in march 2007, but I do not know who did it of where this information came from.
    The photo on this website is not my uncle, this is pte O. Goodger. The photo came out the book 'By sea, by land and by air'.

    Greetings

    Tanja
     

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