Pte 5889794 Edwin Humphreys Northamptonshire Regt

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Dee123, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Welcome to the Forum.

    You don't need a 'membership' of xxx - they sound official but they aren't and I believe they only have basic information anyway so not worth the cost.

    You need to contact the MOD Glasgow for a copy of his Service Records. They are the ONLY official source of information. All you need is his full name and date of birth together with a copy of his death Certificate if he died in the last 30 years unless you are a Next of Kin. Search this site for details or a simple Google should find the details you need (apologies but I'm no good at posting links!).

    Finally don't assume he was 7th Armoured Division. Other Units are often described as such if they were in North Africa. Keep an open mind, get his Service Records and 'all will be revealed'. Good luck.

    Edit: I've just checked the MOD forms and you will need a copy of his Death Certificate.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2018
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  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  3. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    I was going to provide the address & phone number, but Clive has beat me to it (i'm has much use has SDP when it comes to links!).
    They have improved over the years when it comes to getting the Service Records back to you.. It used to take months.. In most cases, it will be well worth the £30.00 you will both spend. It can be most interesting has to what information you get back. My Mother was spitting feathers when she read her Dads. Lots of acronyms..

    Welcome to the forum..

    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Has your partner any photos of his grandfather in uniform, or does anyone in the family have letters from him or documents relating to him like AB64?

    WW2 campaign medals weren't engraved with details, so you can pick up originals often for less than new replicas. Service records will show which medals were awarded and your partner can check with MOD Medal Office to see if they were ever issued. Army personnel who survived had to apply for their medals; some never did.
  5. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    Hi all,
    Thank you for your quick and friendly replies, I am most grateful,

    Unfortunately I do not have his service number or an exact death date.
    (only year and quater of death)
    Without a full date of death I beleive I'm unable to apply for a death certificate,
    I do however have his full date of birth and full name,
    Also without a service number I'm not sure I can apply to the MOD?

    My partner does not have contact with any family so is unable to ask for more information from them, he only has childhood memories of his grandad talking of being a desert rat.

    (I'm happy to share the information about his grandfather we have if it would help)

    Many thanks in advance
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    please share and im sure forum members will get a date of death
    give a rough year and month if you can
  7. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    What we know so far..

    Edwin John Humphreys of Loughborough, Leicestershire,
    D.O.B : 14/09/1913
    Survived Active Service,
    D.O.D : Jul/Aug/Sept 2004

    Married Betty Iris (Maiden Name Unknown)

    (When I put these details into xxx it did find a possible match in 1944 but it requires I sign up to a monthly subscription to which I'm reluctant as we are purely only searching his granddads history)
    Many thanks.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2018
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Can you please can the screen shot
    As stated you will only get his records from the official route Get a copy of military service records

    As I speak Im sure a forum member is seeking for his dod

  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Edwin John Humphreys
    Death Age: 90
    Birth Date: 14 Sep 1913
    Registration Date: Jul 2004
    Registration district: Leicester
    Inferred County: Leicestershire
    Register Number: K2D
    District and Subdistrict: 600/1K

    Contact Leicester Registrar of Births Deaths & Marriages and ask them for a copy of his death certificate details as above, this is the basic information that the MOD (APC) Glasgow require to issue you his military service records.

    The other site you mention will provide you only with information that is available to the General Public and in fact will not be able to issue with his official military records


    From a family tree on Ancestry
    Edwin John Humphreys
    Birth: 14 Sep 1913 - Leicestershire
    Death: Jul 2004 - Leicestershire
    Marriage: 1977 - Loughborough, Leicestershire, England
    Spouse: Ada L Guest
    F: Jack Humphreys
    M: Ada Cooper Gamble
    4jonboy, nicks, ozzy16 and 2 others like this.
  10. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    Many thanks Tricky Dicky, I am most grateful for your help, is the Marriage in 1977 to Ada L Guest please? My partners grandmothers name is Betty Iris Humphreys, (His grandparents from his father's side) My partners fathers name is Brian John Humphreys,
    Kind regards
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  12. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    Thank you Owen, this has been brought to my attention however I am unable to remove what I have already posted. I have been told this should be sorted soon. Kind regards
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Re the marriage - not sure here as I can only find a marriage in 1935 - not 1977 as you mention, but shows in the family tree - to which I cannot guarantee the information - he would have been around 64 in 1977 - I also note he changed his forenames around and seems sometimes to call himself John Edwin

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: John E Humphrey
    Registration Date: Jul-Aug-Sep 1935
    Registration district: Loughborough
    Inferred County: Leicestershire
    Spouse: Ada L Guest
    Volume Number: 7a
    Page Number: 444

    The family tree does show the marriage in 1935
    September 1935 • Loughborough Leicestershire England Ada L Guest (1913–1985)

    But then also shows another
    Marriage 1977

    But this would obviously make him a bigamist which he wasnt, so the creator has made a faux pas

  14. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    TD, I also noticed this and wondered could it be something to do with the move from paperwork to electronic?
    Possibly birth name John Edwin however was always know as Ed hense Betty registering his death as Edwin John?
    (Apologies if that sounds ridiculous I just know electronic system aren't always reliable - I do always prefer a hard paper copy)

    I did find a baptism for John Edwin on the 24th October 1915 in Qourn (which is the village between Barrow which is the birth registered area and Loughborough which is the area he lived and passed at)

    I also found a register in 1939 but it doesn't specify what he registered for, it only states 1939 register, Loughborough M.B
    I'm wondering if this was when he registered for WWII?

    (I'm happy to inbox screenshots)

    The marriage is baffling if I'm honest, I spoke with my partner and he has always known Betty Iris Humphreys (maiden name unknown) to be his grandmother, Betty is still alive, althought no contact due to relationship break downs within the family.

    (I did try to search for a birth entry for my partners father so as to get a maiden name for Betty to then search a marriage between Betty & Edwin but I couldn't find any birth record for Brian only a marriage record for Brian & Linda; my partners parents)

    Please accept my apologies for a late reply I wanted to clarify information with my partner before passing information that could potentially be false onwards, we am most grateful for all your help.
    Kind regards
  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
    Name: John E Humphreys
    Mother's Maiden Name: Gamble
    Registration Year: 1913
    Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration district: Barrow Upon Soar
    Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
    Inferred County: Leicestershire
    Volume: 7a
    Page: 264

    There seems to be some mystery with this family - as you mention searching for a marriage of Humphreys to Gamble results in zero

    But then the plot thickens
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Betty I Humphreys
    Registration Date: Oct-Nov-Dec 1972
    Registration district: Coalville
    Inferred County: Leicestershire
    Spouse: John E Humphreys
    Volume Number: 3a
    Page Number: 1061

    This maybe the marriage in the 1970's you mentioned earlier

    Hmmmm - methinks you need to start again from square 1 i.e. your partners details and work slowly back from there, it seems that you may need to obtain copy documents rather than rely on the details provided by a site such as Ancestry. There is confusion over John Edwin or Edwin John, Cooper Gamble, Ada, Betty etc etc

    One step at a time is best
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  16. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    101 Shelthorpe Road, Loughborough M.B., Leicestershire
    John E Humphreys - 14 Sep 1913 - Boot Tacker
    Ada L Humphreys - 19 Jul 1913 - Unpaid Domestic Duties
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.
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  17. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    Kindest regards and many many thanks for all your help.

    I shall go back and do a search from scratch,
    If you would like to search yourselves my partners details are:

    Ashley John Humphreys of Loughborough, Leicestershire (District Leicestershire Central)
    D.O.B: 10/07/1987

    Father: Brian John Humphreys
    D.o.b: Aug 1951
    Place of Birth: Loughborough, Leics
    Occupation at Ashleys birth is listed as 'Roof Slater'
    (Although I could not find a birth record for Brian during my first search)

    Mother: Linda Mary Humphreys
    (Maiden Name Brown - we have successfully received a certified copy of Linda's birth Certificate)
    D.o.b: February 1954
    Place of Birth: Loughoborough, Leics
    No occupation listed on Ashleys birth certificate

    Ashleys parents married in the Oct/Nov/Dec quater of 1971 (There is a record of this to which I think I must be entering something in wrong when I search for Brian's Birth record)

    Ashleys grandmother (Brian's mother) is Betty Iris Humphreys of 77 William Street, Loughborough, Leicestershire.

    Edwin had freehold on a plot of land which he brought in 1964 which was passed on to Betty when Edwin Passed 2004 (we know this as we have recently applied the land title number and a copy of the register details)

    Kind regards
  18. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member


    I have found a birth record on FreeBMD for Brian Humphreys, and explanation which could provide some of light

    In the beginning of our search my partner said his father often said the family could've been Allen instead of Humphreys and that Brian possibly had half siblings, as we couldn't find a link between any Edwin John Allen we didn't look any further into that,
    I did come across the 1965 birth entry but disregarded it as we know Brian was definitely born in 1951

    I'm wondering if Betty and Edwin had their children out of wedlock (due to Edwin's first marriage to Ada), Betty possibly having deed poll name change to Humphreys before later marrying Edwin

    Surname Given Name Mother District Volume Page Transcriber
    Births Sep 1951

    HUMPHREYS Brian J. ALLEN Coalville 3a See D/65
    This entry appears to be a late entry referring to the following

    The expected page range for this district is 565 to 604

    Possible late entry
    Normally GRO Index page numbers are numeric, optionally followed by a letter. As this page number ('See D/65') does not follow this format it is possible that it is a Late Entry. Late Entries mean that the registration of the event was delayed, e.g. parents did not attend the Register Office to record a birth but the birth was registered much later when the child was about to begin work, or an Inquest after a death prevented the immediate issuing of a death certificate. A Late Entry attempts to show a searcher where to look for the actual GRO reference. Unfortunately the format of such Late Entries is not standardised, but the usual pattern is a letter showing the Quarter of the Registration [March (M), June (J), September (S) or December (D)] followed by the last two digits of the year, thus giving the quarter and year when the Registration was entered into the GRO records. A reference that reads 'see J/75' would therefore indicate that the GRO registration and reference is probably to be found in the June Quarter of either 1875 or 1975 (depending on context).


    Name Betty I Allen
    Event Type Birth Registration
    Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
    Registration Year 1930
    Registration District Ashby De La Zouch
    County Leicestershire
    Event Place Ashby De La Zouch, Leicestershire, England
    Mother's Maiden Name Monk
    Volume 7A
    Page 190
    Affiliate Line Number 126

    I shall update if/when I find anything more,
    kind Regards
  19. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member


    Having looked into Deedpoll and Name changes on I feel its going to be quite difficult to find any truth on this matter:

    How do people change their name and has this changed over the years?

    Under English law it is permissible for a person to take a new name without drawing up any kind of formal record at all. However this sort of 'name change by usage' has declined in recent years due to the impracticality of it - official organisations demand evidence of ones name change. This can still be a problem though when tracing a name change that happened less recently in a time when this kind of name change was acceptable.

    In the past many people who changed their name did not want to draw attention to it. For example, at the time when having a divorce was uncommon and in some ways a taboo, some people took their new partners surname to allow them to appear as married, and any children to appear legitimate. "

    Applying for Brian's birth certificate seems to only way to provide clarity (I hope, as I assume this would this his Mothers name/Maiden name)

    does any body know if I can find out if there were any children born to John Edwin and Ada Guest please?

    Kind Regards
  20. Roberts92

    Roberts92 Member

    Brian J Allen
    England and Wales Birth Registration Index
    Name Brian J Allen
    Event Type Birth Registration
    Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration Year 1951
    Registration District Coalville
    County Leicestershire
    Event Place Coalville, Leicestershire, England
    Mother's Maiden Name Allen
    Volume 3A
    Page ?
    Affiliate Line Number 123

    I now believe it was Brian who's surname was name was changed to Humphreys first

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