proximity fuse

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by chipm, Nov 10, 2020.

  1. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    I guess it was mostly in the 5 inch Navy Guns.?
    Did the Wehrmacht have this technology.?
    I always here that the Brits/USA invented it and that they were very secretive about it.
    Did other armies develop a similar technology.?
    Thank You
     
  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The Proximity fuse technology was in the exchange package that the Tizard Mission negotiated with the US in September 1940.The US for their part would harness their vast industrial capacity for the benefit of the British.

    Also in the package was British scientific knowledge relating to the development of an atomic bomb and the advanced development of radar using the cavity magnetron. From the magnetron was developed the H2S bombing radar and the anti U Boat ASV,the maritime radar which contributed to winning the Battle of the Atlantic.

    Tizard had been working on the scientific aspects and research of the various facets of aeronautical engineering from the Great War.He was aware of the tremendous advantage of scientific research would give in the successful prosecution of the war.

    The Tizard Mission: The Briefcase That Changed World War II
     
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  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Wasn't there a rule against firing them anywhere duds would fall in enemy controlled territory?
     
  4. HAARA

    HAARA Well-Known Member

    Radar operated proximity fuzes were also used by the HAA in defence against V1 flying bombs, being introduced in July 1944. Whilst most of the design work had been carried out in Britain, production was carried out by US. There were no safety problems as fire was directed over the sea. Supplies, however, were limited so not all gun sites were provided with them.
     
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  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    As regards proximity fuses,the Germans never developed the device.

    I would say that this was down to the Hitler edict that any scientific research had to have a pay back of not more than one year.It did put the regime at a disadvantage compared to the British who invested more in scientific research with optimism.For instance the Germans never thought that there was a Chain Home High radar screen giving early warning of approaching enemy aircraft on the North Sea and Channel.E G Bowen had it up and running well before the outbreak of war.The Germans failed to detect its presence.

    A possible exception to this was the development of the wonder weapons which he thought would bring Britain down to her knees.

    First use of the proximity fuse in a land warfare setting was reported to be by US forces during the Battle of the Bulge....shell bursts over enemy troops can be very effective.
     
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  6. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    10-4.... thanks :salut:
     
  7. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Harry Ree posted above:
    Elsewhere I spotted this on a thread about Bentley Priory, so Harry does this make you reconsider?
    Originally from: Frequently Asked Questions: History of Bentley Priory | Bentley Priory Museum
     
  8. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    The first naval proximity, or VT, fuse went into production in the USA in November 1942 and were first used operationally by the cruiser Helena in Jan 1943. Initial fuses, Mk32, were designed for the 5”/38 guns. Approx 9000 were fired in 1943 alone offering a 4 to 1 advantage in downing aircraft.

    That fuse was adapted for the British 5.25” gun, but enjoyed little success with it due to the batteries in them deteriorating under tropical conditions. Better VT fuses, with different batteries, were then developed for the British 4.5” and 4” guns.

    Smaller VT fuses were then developed for the 3”/50 and US army 90mm and British 3.7” guns, and there were versions for the USN 6”/47 guns in cruisers.

    Eventually there were about a dozen different models produced during WW2 for various naval guns. Basically from 3” to 6” guns were catered for. I don’t know what models were made available to armies for their field artillery.
     
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  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    No, David but I am very surprised to see a reference to what is a misleading interpretation.

    What "radar" were they referring to ,which at the time,British scientists referred as RDF ........Udet and Milch's agenda was not specific to claim that they had the knowledge of CH

    A search of prewar German scientific aerial research into the series of tall towers down the East coast of Britain throws up conformation of what I have posted.

    Opera Snapshot_2020-11-11_190417_military.wikia.org.png That reference is from military wikia

    Another reference is from a German researcher Gerhard Hepeke

    Opera Snapshot_2020-11-11_202329_www.radarworld.org.png



    Opera Snapshot_2020-11-11_202724_www.radarworld.org.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. hutt

    hutt Member

    There is an interesting photo opposite page 412 in R.V. Jones, Most Secret War.
    Captioned as follows
    25a. German Photograph of a V-1 Track across the Straits of Dover taken by a camera with its shutter left open at night. The continuous white track is traced out by the flame of the bomb as it travels towards Kent, and the white spots (whose pattern puzzled the Germans) were bursts of anti-aircraft shells fitted with proximity fuses.
    The photo is referred to on page 428.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  11. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    THAT is interesting.
    Do you have any idea if The Wehrmacht ever figured that out.?
     
  12. Blutto

    Blutto Banned

    If Milch and Udet visited BP, it would probably have been in 1937 and not 1938 (see link to 'Times' newspaper cutting). In the light of already existing concerns regarding the Nazis I'd be very surprised if they were given access to anything of a critical and secret nature.
    Udet Supplementary Articles
     
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  13. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

    There is some discussion of the VT fuse in two SHAEF files (available to download from TNA) beginning in WO 229/52/21 and continuing in WO 229/45/3. The latter includes an instructive Interim Report on Effectiveness of VT Fuzes and mention of British requirements (25-pdr, 3.7-inch and 5.5-inch).

    N.B. These files have to be downloaded as WO 229/52 (p.710) and WO 229/45 (p.116).
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  14. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    See Post 7 by me and from Post 12 an excerpt:
    In another thread there is a pointer to an article about Shadow Factories and it includes this citation:
    From: Wartime Shadow Factories

    Professional courtesy aside this prompts me to speculate: were there reciprocal RAF visits to the Luftwaffe in the pre-war period? Secondly, were these visits used for disinformation?
     
  15. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    They gave the Soviets Nenes as a good will gesture. :(

    EDIT:

    It's been brought to my attention that I should have provided more info. Sorry about that.

    A total of twenty-five Nenes were sold to the Soviet Union as a gesture of goodwill - with reservation to not use for military purposes - with the agreement of Stafford Cripps. Rolls-Royce were given permission in September 1946 to sell 10 Nene engines to the USSR, and in March 1947 to sell a further 15. The price was fixed under a commercial contract. A total of 55 jet engines were sold to the Soviets in 1947.[8] The Soviets reneged on the deal after the Cold War broke out in 1947, and reverse engineered the Nene to develop the Klimov RD-45, and a larger version, the Klimov VK-1, which soon appeared in various Soviet fighters including Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15.

    Rolls-Royce Nene - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  16. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Official exchange visits involving military sites is far different from allowing a foreign power who was recognised as a potential enemy to witness any top secret development or even discuss it with them.The practice of safeguarding secrets was usually one of a "need to know" for those working on classified projects.

    Official exchange visits were arranged with an itinerary that divulged little away regarding military installations. A rewarding intelligence conduit was via the Military Attaches which all countries had exchange arrangements in place although the host country would stipulate the travel limits.Other sources of the observation of military development were possible by the casual tourist.For some time the British SIS employed intelligence agents under cover as "Passport Officers" abroad.

    Regarding the tourist I remember at school when a master,"Benny" used to digress and talk about other subjects from Geography.Recalling a visit to Germany he made prewar,he declared that it was said that it was a myth that the Germans had cardboard tanks...... he said take it from me, they were real tanks.
     
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  17. Blutto

    Blutto Banned

    Hardly news and hardly relevant to the OPs post. However its important to note that it occurred under a socialist government at a time when even the secret services had communist traitors in their midst.
     

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