Private Andrew Hutchison 4th Btn Black Watch May 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by Bazzo, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    Hallo everyone, new here, so sorry if this is in the wrong area.
    I’m trying to find some information on my Grandfather, Andrew Hutchison attested to the 4th or 5th Battalion the Black Watch in May 1939. As it was in Dundee I presume it was the 4th Battalion. That’s him on the right of the photo.
    He was reported missing on the 13th of May 1940 and spent the rest of the war as a POW in Stalag 20a in Thurn Poland.
    Can anyone tell me please where the 4th Battalion Black Watch was in France, round about 13 May 1940?
    Thanks for any help
    Mike
     

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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    The action of 13th May 1940 for 4 Black Watch is described in pages 31 to 36 in Saul David's book ''Churchill's Sacrifice of the Highland Division''.

    They were on the Saar Front & lost 6 killed, 25 wounded and about 30 PoW.
    I'm sure Andy has the war diary for 4 Black Watch.
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    WO 167/711 4 Black Watch War Diary
    [​IMG]

    Shame you don't know his Company - I could tell you virtually where he was when he was captured from the sketch map mentioned above in the diary.
     
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  4. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    I know very little about my Grandad, he was dead by the time I was born. We just lately managed to find out he was in the Black Watch. His number was 2 757 728. Attached is his ABF 102, maybe some of it makes more sence to you two than me.

    thanks
    Mike
     

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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I note that image 2 shows "in Allied hands in Odessa", from this I would assume his camp was one of those liberated by the Russians, as there is another thread where someone is looking for details of their grandfather who escaped and was picked up by the Russians (http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/52145-captured-at-st-valery-and-sent-to-stalag-xxb/) and he too was repatriated via Odessa (then by ship to Malta, and finally back to the UK).
    I cannot find your grandfather recorded on "All UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945 Results" on Ancestry by name (although there are 5 A Hutchison's), service number 2757728, or the number 9410 (which I assumed as possibly being his POW number), but that is the same as the other thread. It almost seems as those Allied POW's that were 'liberated' by the Russian advance have not been recorded anywhere, I am trying to find out if there is any listings, but perhaps your grandfather did complete a Liberation Questionnaire, others on the site will be able to help you out with that.

    TD
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    It also confirms he was indeed in 4th Bn as in post #1 you weren't sure.
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    It states he was a PoW from the 31st May
     
  8. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    Thanks very much to you all, the family (who are still alive) didn't really know that much about his time in the services. I know that my Gran used to say he was "locked up by the Germans with Sam Kydd" but you never really take it in.
    Attached is another form
     

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  9. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    Owen You say "it also confirms he was in the 4th" what is "it"?
    I assumed he was in the 4th because he attested in Dundee and the 5th didn't go to France.
    Is there something else there?
    Again thanks for the responses,

    Mike
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Second image of yours in post #4. In postings in says 4th Bn 4.5.39 In post #8 it also says 4th in the column marked unit, proceeded overseas 29.1.1940
     
  11. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    thanks Owen
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Ya welcome for the page from the war diary too :lol:
     
  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    This date appears to be based on a postcard sent by him on arrival in a Stalag- presume usual captivity card via Red Cross?- as recorded on his AFB 200.

    Steve Y
     
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  14. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    Drew, yes of course thanks, and to all of you who have repleid, it is much appreciated.

    Mike
     
  15. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Attached Files:

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  16. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Was Andrew married when he was taken POW and possibly in Germany 1st before his time in Poland?

    There is a Private Andrew Hutchison reported missing article in the Dundee Courier paper (see attached). This private was married though. Article also appears to have a photograph, but you would need to subscribe to either 'findmypast' or 'Britishnewspaperarchive' to view it.

    Of interest there are 113 articles regarding the Black Watch from this time. I had a quick look through the items and there was a Lance Corp. Albert Mudie 2750587 4th BW who died exactly on 13 May 1940 (according to the CWGC).

    Had a look at 'Scotlandspeople.gov.uk' and found 3 Andrew Hutchison's born in 1911, but only one in the Angus region, which I assume would be your Andrew. This entry gives the middle name of Dalgety. Again, if you were to purchase credits you could open this birth entry and obtain details of his parents, address etc. If he also married and died in Scotland this is the website to use to gain that information.
     

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  17. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    JCB, thank you, I'll have a look and see if I can get it, although I'm waiting from Saul David's book from Amazon that Owen recommended. There was quite a few captured in May 1940, maybe it was for the better. Sam Kydd was probably a bit underrated.
    Amberdog, correct his middle name was Dalgetty, at the time of capture he was married to Alice Gibb, in 1947 he married my grandmother Mary Welsh.
    I have most of his personal details but what was missing was his army time, as I said somewhere above we only just found out recently that he was in the Black Watch (TA). I'll check out your links, thanks.
    According to his papers and what I've learned here he went overseas on the 29.1.1940 with the 4th Battalion, I don't know if he spent any time in Germany, he was reported in Stalag XXa in 31.5.1940
    Thanks again for the interest and help. I'm impressed with the help and friendliness shown by the members on this forum.

    Mike
     
  18. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Sam Kydd ( sent straight from London to the doomed defence of Calais with the Queen Victoria Rifles , all were killed or captured ) Digressing a bit but did like this story about him by his son-

    My father never knew how many films he’d made, or whether he was in them! I remember watching a film in the sitting room on TV one Sunday afternoon while he was in the kitchen reading the papers. The title appeared. ‘The Magnet”. I asked him if he was in it. ‘You in a film called the Magnet?’ I shouted. “Nar” he shouted back. He immediately appeared cycling over a hill in the opening shot. He was the postman! He entered the Post Office, and delivered several lines in a Yorkshire accent. ‘You’re in it! You’re in it!’ I shouted back into the kitchen. ‘You’re the postman!’ ‘Oh yes! I am. I remember now! What’s the name of the film again?’ ‘The Magnet! Are you in it anymore......

    Craig
     
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  19. Bazzo

    Bazzo Member

    Amberdog, this is from the Courier Link in your post.

    cheers
    Mike
     

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  20. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Hi Mike, just spotted the Courier article. It's fantastic when a photo is printed as well.
     
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