US military base in the Gulf, USO tour with an actor having a go on their guns. I thought it was a Sterling? Couldn't find anything similar on World Guns. So I was just wondering, do the Septics use them? ~A
Looks like Sterling to me with a funny attachment on top of the barrel. We were told NEVER to hold them by the magazine.
Ah, bugger - inspiration strikes 10 seconds after hitting submit - the Iraqis have them, don't they? That would explain it... duh.
Yes it is the good old Sterling the muzzle cap and foresight protectors give it away - I agree with Owen, holding the magazine can lead to stoppages as the mag can slip back out of the receiver. A weapon that was better than popular myth would have it. Close quarter ideal and the 9mm round at close range packed a punch. In a mechanized Infantry battalion our drivers used it,liked it myself. I did see a Sterling with a a top ramp fitted (similar) for the old single spot sight, a red dot lit up shining back at the eye and keeping both eyes open using the dot as target marker - trialed some years ago and not selected for service then. The perforated handguard for cooling. With fighting iron attached Designed in 1944 to a War Department request. Sterling Eng Co Dagenham. A red dot shows up at infinity this can be zeroed to a given range, aiming with both eyes open the red dot on target to shoot.
Looks like Sterling to me with a funny attachment on top of the barrel. We were told NEVER to hold them by the magazine. You damned ignorant! This is the way to do it!
#1 Looks like a modern British 9mm SMG. I say modern, as it was in service when I joined the army in Nov '75 (along with the 7.62 SLR), you can also see the folding butt. As far as Sterlings go, I didn't think they had a hole punched barrel guard. This was so you could hold the weapon and not the mag' It was issued to all AFV crewmen, 'cos it folds up small. Could be wrong though, have been in the past! The USA would not use this weapon as: 1 its British 2 its cheap 3 it works under all environmental and soldierly conditions (pity the SA80 boys couldn't do that first time round! as it replaced both the SMG and SLR).
We were told NEVER to hold them by the magazine. As were British troops being trained on the Sten in World War Two, though I've been reliably informed by a few ex-Sten users that holding them by the mag housing was de rigueur
You damned ignorant! This is the way to do it! Poor Hauptmann Dietrich. The Rat Patrol killed his whole company every week and he kept coming back for more.
The USA would not use this weapon as: 1 its British 2 its cheap 3 it works under all environmental and soldierly conditions (pity the SA80 boys couldn't do that first time round! as it replaced both the SMG and SLR). I wonder if Sgt York and thousands of other Doughboys knew that when they did all that fighting with their M1917s?
HI Dave55, The SMLE and its spin offs and derivates as I found when using it in the Army Cadet Force (ACF), prior to 1970 was in my opinion a good weapon, robust and accurate. The STEN on the other hand, as my father told me was cheap and dangerous to user and close friends, never mind the enemy. It was simple and cheap to produce in vast numbers and easy to use. The SMG, we were never allowed to call it the Sterling, was a bit safer, but could still cock and fire itself when dropped onto a reasonably hard surface, entertaining as long as you are not too close. The great thing about this weapon is that it folded up quite small, great for AFV crews and REME fitters.
HI Dave55, The SMLE and its spin offs and derivates as I found when using it in the Army Cadet Force (ACF), prior to 1970 was in my opinion a good weapon, robust and accurate. The STEN on the other hand, as my father told me was cheap and dangerous to user and close friends, never mind the enemy. It was simple and cheap to produce in vast numbers and easy to use. The SMG, we were never allowed to call it the Sterling, was a bit safer, but could still cock and fire itself when dropped onto a reasonably hard surface, entertaining as long as you are not too close. The great thing about this weapon is that it folded up quite small, great for AFV crews and REME fitters. Hey John, My initial reply was a bit brusk. I inferred a dig at America. I can see I was mistaken and apologize. I think the SMLE was the best bolt action rifle of both World Wars. The M1917 was a 30:06 version of the .303 P14 though and not based on SMLE. Sort of a modified Mauser originally designed for a .276 cartridge It's a very strong action. I've seen several re barreled to .458 Winchester. Dave
Hi Dave, If I do dig it will only be in jest, as our countries and peoples have been through too much together. Governments and politicians worry me at times, but never people. The Americans I met in the Gulf were more than helpful and welcoming, more so than my own countries units. We have a different way of accounting and issuing spare parts -we don't get any - whereas you Americans - if you've got it, you give it - very refreshing, and quite a novel idea! If only my QM(Tech) had thought like that! Cheers, John
On my stints as a Musketry Instructor, I luckily came across many weapons. If the Sten or the Stirling had a bad reputation that must be down to mishandling. Both have a different firing system than many automatic weapons. In weapons like the Bren, gas operated with a sophisticated breech closure method of closing breech block and sear. The two SMGs have a simple blow back type system the breech block fixed with an articulating extractor, let the working parts go forward with a mag on and you will have a negligent discharge. On some marks of the Sten you could carry it perfectly safely, the cocking handle fully back and slipped into the 'dog leg slot' the cocking handle could then be pushed or tapped in making it relatively safe even with a mag on, this could be reversed easily. All infantry soldiers are proficient in their personal weapon and specialist soldiers, drivers,signallers etc. may have carried an SMG. The SMG could be the soldiers alternative personal weapon, failure to keep your wits about you, could lead to problems when moving from one well known set of drills to another. How do you hold a Stirling? - If you look at the Stirling the forward perforated handguard and look back to the ejection slot, you will see a lip protruding this is a guard to stop your hand slipping back and and saying goodbye to fingers or lumps of flesh!
Looks like Sterling to me with a funny attachment on top of the barrel. The top bit looks like a RIS (Rail Intergrated System) to add gucci bits on to the gat.
ah just found this pic. correct way to hold , aim & fire the SMG http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4395105037_239849a4e5.jpg
It was the rail that made me look twice, and this: If you look at the Stirling the forward perforated handguard and look back to the ejection slot, you will see a lip protruding this is a guard to stop you hand slipping back and and saying goodbye to fingers or lumps of flesh! Thank you very much Wills, that was the other part which on the picture made the barrel guard look a funny 'bulging' shape to me, until I realised it was something sticking out around the ejector- I was going to ask (being non-firearms-experienced, but pretty fascinated by 'em); but now I don't have to - great stuff.
Von Poop, As an engineer turned infantryman I would look at weapons from two points of view. My admiration for designers who could make a weapon to the spec laid down by the then War Department that would perform and achieve the ever problematic 'idiot proofing' is this weapon going to perform in the field in the hands of an average soldier in all conditions? Is it easy to maintain, easy to strip with frozen fingers? All of these things are relevant. Did the Stirling perform? Yes it did. Light, easy to use and the one thing all soldiers want reliability. In my last I mentioned a safety feature on the Sten, if you look at the image you can see that the cocking handle when pulled back can be put into a dog leg slot , once in this position the cocking handle can using a thumb be pushed down this locks it into the slot, grasping the handle and pulling back will release it, it was designed to reduce discharges. You may also note there is no finger/hand guard on the ejection opening. The de luxe model Mk5
There is no hole to push the cocking handle into when cocked on any of the STENs. There is a dog leg upwards on the Mk2 to 6 and downwards on the Mk1. There is a hole at the front which the cocking handle can be pushed into when the breech block is fully forward, this prevents rearward movement of the bolt and a ND. Not all Mk1 and Mk2 STENs may have this feature as it was the MkV cocking handle and introduction of the hole that was the final soloution.
