Posthumous Gallantry Awards

Discussion in 'General' started by timuk, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Many threads refer to the fact (unfairly in my opinion) that only the VC and a MiD could be awarded posthumously for action against the enemy during WW2. I note now that all Gallantry Awards, DSC, MC, DFC etc (except DSO) may be awarded posthumously.
    When did the rules change?

  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

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  3. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    I think the Falklands was the first occasion where Posthumous awards, other than the VC and MiD, were made
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  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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  5. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    In a video I watched the other day they stated that when it was originally created it was the 'official policy' that the VC could not be awarded posthumously. A subsequent change in policy occurred around the time of the Second Boer War, although I forget the exact details.
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  6. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Thanks everyone.

  7. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Ever one to be sidetracked by this Forum. Whilst looking through the NA index I came across the following:
    ADM 1/29976
    Award of DSM (one Posthumous) to 2 ratings for 'Human Torpedo' raid on La Spezia which sank Italian cruiser Bolzano June 21/22 1944.
    ADM 1/30040
    Chief Yeoman of Signals K H Baker, HMS Middleton.
    Original award of MiD cancelled due to rating incorrectly killed (sic!). Award of DSM in lieu.

    In the first case it would be interesting to know whether the posthumous award was actually made or whether it was reduced to MiD.
    In the second case I rather think the title should have been 'incorrectly listed as killed'.
    Both put on my 'to look at list' unless someone has the files or knows more.

  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    WW II Awards for RN Bomb and Mine Disposal
    CAUSER Malcolm Richard
    Ord Seaman Sub Lt RNVR
    FV Arthur
    HMS Fabius (Taranto)
    Not Gazetted
    28 Nov 44
    Chariot Diver - Participated in first Chariot attempt to sink the Tirpitz 50 miles up Trondheim Fjord in Oct 1942. During rough weather, both chariots were lost from beneath their fishing boat 'Arthur' which subsequently sank. All personnel attempted to make their escape across Sweden.
    DSO awarded for great gallantry. Teamed with Smith as the crew of a 'Human Torpedo' which penetrated the heavily defended harbour of La Spezia on the night of 21 Jun 44 and sank the Italian Cruiser Bolzano. Captured while trying to escape across the River Arno.

    “Italian Cruiser R.M. Bolzano”

    Lt Causer and Seaman Harry Smith managed to sink the 10,000 ton Italian Cruiser “Bolzano,” but had to abandon their craft, and they then scrambled ashore having been at sea for over 7 hours. The two British sailors joined up with Italian guerillas, with whom they fought for 6 weeks, finally being captured by a German patrol.
    It was suspected that they both were responsible for the sinking of the “Bolzano,” however they both denied any involvement in that affair, maintaining they were survivors from a large British Submarine. Smith was sent to prison camps in Germany, at first to Bremen, and then to Lubeck, where he was kept in solitary confinement, whilst the Germans tried to break him down to admit that he was involved in the sinking of the “Bolzano”, but he managed to stick to his claim that he survived the sinking of a large British Submarine. Smith survived the war, to be finally rescued by the invading British troops.

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  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Operation QWZ.
    From The Operations – The Underwater Heritage Trust
    Operation “QWZ”
    In June 1944 a combined Italian and British force attacked La Spezia harbour
    Operators Berey, Causer, Lawrence, H.Smith.

    From Australian Submarines by Michael White
    Two Chariots involved. One started leaking and had to be scuttled.

    London Gazette:

    All four appear to have survived the war. In 'Australian Submarines' it mentions that in escaping three were captured and one was wounded. Perhaps it was initially thought either Berey or Lawrence had been killed leading to my original enquiry on the posthumous award file. One day I'll get the file.

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