Heimbrent where the "ciggies" come in is in my somewhat elementary way of trying to underline the fact that while we WW2 veterans on this forum were in many ways totally ignorant of PSTD and associated ailments of that kind - we were also totally ignorant of the devastating effects of smoking on the lungs which became apparent much later than WW2 had long ended -as is also the case with PSTD etc.... My reference to the media was to let you understand that while your implication was that we should therefore dispel our ignorance of these various ailments by researching those ailments - we do not suffer from those - ergo we have no need to research them. I trust this is now clear for you. Cheers
Those afternoon naps Ron... Bloody lovely, lunch and pud, cup of tea. Out for the count ...GREAT...More please sapper. PS Imagine mates.... Please Sgt Major, I have PTS. You have son? Go to the mess and peel a cwt of spuds. you will forget it in no time .... The younger generation here will not believe that, but we do, dont we HA!
My reference to the media was to let you understand that while your implication was that we should therefore dispel our ignorance of these various ailments by researching those ailments - we do not suffer from those - ergo we have no need to research them. I trust this is now clear for you. Cheers That's a misunderstanding - I didn't mean to say you should research it, nor did I say anything about ignorance. I meant that in a general sense (and not directly in response to what you said) - you don't have to be/have been part of or have witnessed something to research it.
Understanding PTSD PTSD is not a new disorder. There are written accounts of similar symptoms that go back to ancient times, and there is clear documentation in the historical medical literature starting with the American Civil War, when a PTSD-like disorder was known as "Da Costa's Syndrome"' or "soldiers heart". There are particularly good descriptions of post traumatic stress symptoms in the medical literature on combat veterans of World War II and on Holocaust survivors. Careful research and documentation of PTSD began in earnest after the Vietnam War. The National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study estimated in 1988 that the prevalence of PTSD in that group was 15.2% at that time and that 30% had experienced the disorder at some point since returning from Vietnam. PTSD has subsequently been observed in all veteran populations that have been studied, including World War II, Korean conflict, and Persian Gulf populations, and in United Nations peacekeeping forces deployed to other war zones around the world. There are remarkably similar findings of PTSD in military veterans in other countries. For example, Australian Vietnam veterans experience many of the same symptoms that American Vietnam veterans experience. PTSD is not only a problem for veterans, however. Although there are unique cultural- and gender-based aspects of the disorder, it occurs in men and women, adults and children, Western and non-Western cultural groups, and all socioeconomic strata. A national study of American civilians conducted in 1995 estimated that the lifetime prevalence of PTSD was 5% in men and 10% in women. blatent cut and paste from an american site - trying to demonstrate that PTSD in one name or another has been around a while
Heimbrent we appear to be having more than just linguistic difficulties so lets just say that WE were in ignorance of both PTSD and other ailments ALONG with our ignorance of Cancer which is allegedly caused by smoking - these discoveries were made after our time in WW2 notwithstanding that they have apparently been around since Noah allegedly floated his Ark....after all only Ron made it to the higher levels of Corporal - Sapper and I never gained those heights- so ignorance was fashionable ! and yes I agree that we don't have to have witnessed something in order to research it - BUT you do have to be interested in the subject which is what Sapper - Ron and myself have been saying for some time now - ALL we have been saying is that we can sympathise with those who are afflicted by these problems but there is not a hell of a lot we can DO about it - we have experts for that ! Sapper reminds me if at anytime we admitted to being "fragile" at our level - then we were liable to be seconded to the cookhouse in order to peel hundred of potaoes which had the ability to dispel our fragility ! Cheers
Adam you are correct in what you say..Youll never see Simon Weston on our forums..yep he has given interviews but one of best points ever made on war and rememberance was his foreward to Bloody Hell..Anyone with an interest of ptsd effects should get a copy..I have tried in past to get a few folk from Falklands and Belfast days Iknew wounded from Chessington on here without success. Iwas injured not wounded but Chessington in 81 to 85 was enough to give all of us ptsd.
Just as a point of historical fact, military and civilian psychiatrists in Britain and America were already becoming aware by the early 1950s that a phenomenon like PTSD existed amongst some ex-servicemen of WWII, although of course they didn't use that term. A five-year followup on 200 US combat veterans in 1951 showed that fresh war-related psychiatric cases were already occuring amongst men who had left the Forces with no apparent signs of trauma. "This was the first indication that a distinction perhaps needed to be drawn between those who succumb to psychological symptomatology during battle itself, and those who survive battle, only to find that war-related psychological symptoms arise at some point in the future, perhaps after years of apparently normal functioning" (Hunt & Robbins, The long-term consequences of war: the experience of World War II). PTSD was not something that psychiatrists invented in the Vietnam era. Best, Alan
What is now known as PTSD isn't a new phenomenon, like was stated above, it has, well, always existed. But it wasn't recognised as what it is until after WW2. It used to be called shell shock, battle fatigue, combat stress, now it's called PTSD. And (like was also mentioned before) there are different reasons for it, not just war experience. *edit* Btw, you don't have to suffer from PTSD or been at war to research and know about it. Regarding the bold text. PTSD is NOT anything like battle fatigue or shell shock. Battlefatigue and shell shock is something the serviceman can get DURING the fighting. PTSD is a mental condition that a serviceman can develop AFTER the fighting.
Jughead - I am truly sorry that you and your relatives suffer from whatever you want to call the malady you have - and as I pointed out - WE can do nothing about it and thus have to leave this and any action to experts who have studied and are involved in the treatments available Cheers I don't look at PTSD as being an "ailment" in my case, although I can not say that for everyone. I do have an extremely short fuze and I am prone to bouts of melancholy. I am aware of the things that trigger "flare ups" and do my best to avoid them. My wife recognizes when I am having issues and is very understanding. The biggest difference I see, between your generation and others, is that you (WW2 Veterans) had an enormous group with which to "share". The personality quirks that most people with PTSD exhibit today are taken for the norm with folks of your generation and vintage. You guys had a great deal of closure associated with the end of your war and I am sure that is something helped nullify the effects of PTSD. Seeing England and Europe rebuilt and knowing that you had done a "good thing" must have been very cathartic for you.
JAMES BLUNT "Cry" I have seen peace. I have seen pain, Resting on the shoulders of your name. Do you see the truth through all their lies? Do you see the world through troubled eyes? And if you want to talk about it anymore, Lie here on the floor and cry on my shoulder, I'm a friend. I have seen birth. I have seen death. Lived to see a lover's final breath. Do you see my guilt? Should I feel a fright? Is the fire of hesitation burning bright? And if you want to talk about it once again, On you I depend. I'll cry on your shoulder. You're a friend. You and I have lived through many things. I'll hold on to your heart. I wouldn't cry for anything, But don't go tearing your life apart. I have seen fear. I have seen faith. Seen the look of anger on your face. And if you want to talk about what will be, Come and sit with me, and cry on my shoulder, I'm a friend. And if you want to talk about it anymore, Lie here on the floor and cry on my shoulder, Once again. Cry on my shoulder, I'm a friend.
Some vets get ptsd some dont. It exists and a et is a vet no matter what bloody action he or she saw..simples
No one is going to let this one go!!! Too many personalities and vanities involved. I have read all the posts- several times and gone round in so many circles I'm dizzy! Anyone care to attempt to summarize the various opinions? I feel sure there is a common thread there somewhere.
Regarding the bold text. PTSD is NOT anything like battle fatigue or shell shock. Battlefatigue and shell shock is something the serviceman can get DURING the fighting. PTSD is a mental condition that a serviceman can develop AFTER the fighting. Thanks for the clarification!
I find this thread very interesting. Especially the generation gap between our WW2 Veterans & post-war ones and their differing points of view. [I'm sure someone could write a thesis on it for a degree.]
